Little Miss Jerkface is not going to feel the same way when she's a feeble old woman riding the bus.

I had a conversation about this with Chinese colleagues when I first arrived here. I was surprised that few young people gave up their seats for elderly bus and subway passengers. They argued that younger people deserve to sit down because they work all day, while old folk just lounge about. I doubt they will feel the same at 70.

wow, that seems like a short-sighted position to take, although I'd say it's a rather American attitude.

btw, how do you say "sustainability" in chinese or "energy policy"? I'm going to China, and my chinese is pretty lame and probably outdated.

Seat offerer, did you post last year in a similar article with the same name and with similar view points?
...

Part of reason for giving up you seat, and hell, respecting elderly, is that you will get there some day (say if you are still young), and it's like social security, in the universal morality and traditional sense. But on a personal level, that could be your grandma, your mother.. You know, the person who radiated you with selfless love... So in a way elderly are like the parents of society, so one out to give them some love back. I suppose that's the point?

But do any of you young people remember the last time you give up a seat on the bus? For me it was at least 7 years ago, prolly.

the rule is simple: giving seat is a choice, not duty, nor requirement.

Christ, that young woman is no Rosa Parks, is she? What an absolute c*nt.

> But do any of you young people remember the last time you give up a seat on the bus?

I don’t use public transport because I’m not poor but on the rare occasions I do I cherish the opportunity to give up my seat to a granny. Mainly because that shows everyone on the bus or subway that, despite using a knife and fork to eat, foreigners aren’t complete barbarians. Also one of the few ways to get Chinese people to behave in a civilized way is to shame them into it. There’s some big loss of face going round when it’s the foreigner who gives his seat up to granny Wang.

Shame on you, post-80s brats!

"wow, that seems like a short-sighted position to take, although I'd say it's a rather American attitude."---YANG

What the hell are you talking about? Americans are the most generous people in the world. Per capita we donate more than any other country, we take care of our retired veterans, and we have accountability to boot.

There is no chance this young lady on an NYC---or anywhere in the US---bus with this attitude would survive a bus ride and have an elderly person stand. There are better chances of a blizzard in hell...or natural precipitation in Beijing.

As an American that bleeds red, white, and blue I demand an apology for your shifting the blame. If anything Chinese are more guilty of impolite social graces than any American. We may be fat and ugly but at least we are sensitive to other people's needs.

On behalf of the United States of America I ask you to kindly refrain from pointing the finger in our direction for all of your misfortunes. Take the blame. Correct it. Furthermore, go outside and play a game of "Hide and Go F**k Yourself".

Stop with the envy of our large appetites and our even larger debts.

This is the new trend of a group of internet mob who hates everything being Chinese and will abandon everything for foreign or "modern" stuff. This is just one thing that they perceive as being Chinese therefore want it gone and made up some stupid justification for it. Seriously these people are pathetic.

Although I don't know about this kind of people being the majority. Last time I was in China, I saw plenty of people, young ones included, who gave up their seats to elderly. I don't believe China lack those polite young people. They are like those college students who would gladly volunteered for the Olympics, which as anyone can see, there were plenty.

What a disgrace...

my younger cousin is a spoilt girl, i am always worried about her,but when i saw her giving up seats to elderly, i changed my mind.It is a choice not a rule, a kind-hearted person would give up his/her seat to old people and never expect gratitude.

See how those people think when they get old...they are simply selfish and stupid.

It is a rule, an unspoken rule. And that's a great thing. Chinese people are not the most gracious towards strangers most of the time, but this is one exception.

Beijingers are especially good at following this "rule", moreso than Shanghai, Hong Kong or most places in the west I have been to.

(Though if the old person says they only have one stop to go, let them be, as it might actually harder for those with bad knees to sit down and get up again)

I bet she must be one of those spoiled "princess", the only child in her family, and her parents don't get along well with their parents.

I always wonder why if this is such a traditional value it must be played over the loud speaker at nearly every bus stop.

Also, "Shame on you, post-80s brats!" The article says it was a 30-something woman. I think she should have given up her seat, but she's not a brat, she's a grown woman.

The "never give away your bus seat" group is a bit silly, but us poor people who ride the bus know that there are quite a few old people who will SPRINT to get to an empty seat or will shove people twice their size out of the way to get to an empty space. I understand their frustration, but come on! Let the old people have a seat, at the very least just to give them one less thing to complain about.

As someone that has given up seats and has escorted old folks across busy streets (in the Boy Scout sense), all I can say is that in the end, I would have hoped someone would do that for my mom or dad. And it just makes me feel good in this place of crassness and me me me attitudes. It makes me sick when I see the local drivers (often with their own precious louts in the car) actually speed up when an elderly person or kid is crossing the street.

I can honestly say I have seen more kind acts on subways and buses than those like that c**t in this story.

Harmonious Society and "Confucius" attitudes. What a joke.

That is utter BS. Giving up your seat is far less common in NYC than in many places in China. They do it almost to a fault here in Beijing.

"There is no chance this young lady on an NYC---or anywhere in the US---bus with this attitude would survive a bus ride and have an elderly person stand. There are better chances of a blizzard in hell...or natural precipitation in Beijing."

China's capitalism is progressing too fast, causing huge generation gap and ideological difference, liberals and conservatives hate each other as much as you hate your third party.

This is obviously one incident and not a scientific study, but I resent this Yang commenters seemingly random attack on Americans. The US is actually a rather polite country compared to many so I never understand how NYC got such an unfair reputation.

My personal experiences mostly match up with this article here

many Asian countries have surprisingly rude (by my values at least) norms. The exception is Japan, of course, which has the most polite population I've ever experienced. No grannies standing on those trains, I guarantee it (and so do the signs posted all over)

What the hell are you talking about? Americans are the most generous people in the world. Per capita we donate more than any other country, we take care of our retired veterans, and we have accountability to boot.
That's only because you're too fucking stupid to have a welfare state like all the decent social democracies where thanks to gutsy working class movements we don't have to be charity cases or rely on god-botherers.

no big deal, it is human nature whether you are kind-hearted or heartless, no matter you are 80-brats or old generation. capitalism is nothing to me, i give up my seat to elderly as i think of my grandma and grandpa, i am a MS patient, but i can walk well and standing on the bus is bearable...I do wish if I am disabled, somebody would kind enough to give me a hand on matter i am in Beijing or NYC

Clearly this act is one of subversion against the state

not giving up your seat is a national past time on the singapore MRT. the skill is to pretend you are sleeping and this is usually the pose adopted by teenagers. the speed with which commuters go from wide awake to deep sleep when on the train suggests the MRT could be a possible cure for insommnia.

I once 'tapped' a "sleeping" teen on the head with my umbrella to remind him about the heavily pregnant woman standing in front of him (he was "sleeping" in one of the doorside seats). Funny thing was how quickly he obliged. Most people, when called out, will do the right thing. the stubborn lady in China is an exception.

By the way, in the experience of my recently pregnant wife, Hong Kong scores well on the giving-up-your-seat-to-those-who-need-it stakes.

"That's only because you're too fucking stupid to have a welfare state like all the decent social democracies where thanks to gutsy working class movements we don't have to be charity cases or rely on god-botherers."
Thumbs up to Jim!

As a foreigner in China, I think it is a real pleasure to give my seat to an old timer in a crowded bus while everybody pretend to look elsewhere. Feels like a good punch in the face to all the post-90s-spoiled-brats, career-is-more-important-than-anything-else-so-i-need-to-rest sob and other Chinese-are-better-than-Westerner morons…

However, it is a good point not to insist too much as people might have a hard time getting up.

This hurts the feelings of the Chinese people

This hurts the feelings of the Chinese people
Posted by: LoveChinaLongTime | October 9, 2008 5:10 PM

why do some people always spew this drivel? you do not speak for all of the 1.3 billion chinese people, you do not know what all the many people from all the nationalities of this country think! you and people like you try to buttress your ideas by claiming that all chinese people think as one, and happy coincidence, they all agree with what you say.

You all missed the best part of this story, which is when the 30-something woman said:
"Go and check it out on the Internet if you like." （你上网就知道了）

When China's citizens start justifying bad behavior by referencing online social networking groups, you know we're in deep 独堵！

In Beijing as soon as I got on the subway, young people jumped up and insisted I take their seat. I tried to protest and say that although I looked old, I wasn't really, but they insisted. (I'm 66). I really wanted to stand, but the result was that although I objected, I got this really warm feeling toward China, especially toward young people.

In Shanghai the young people were more open to being persuaded to allowing me to stand, although someone always offered their seat. Once I even got to give my seat to a very tired looking younger woman. Made me feel that I belonged in China.

Just as the wonderful spirit of the volunteers at the Olympics did more for international relations than all the press releases and trade agreements in the world, so this custom is a wonderful part of Chinese culture and beautiful to witness.

sustainability in chinese: ke chi xu xing

energy policy: neng yuan zheng ce

She's merely exercizing her right as a non free-loading commuter, and what about the other people that are seating in the bus?

"That is utter BS. Giving up your seat is far less common in NYC than in many places in China. They do it almost to a fault here in Beijing."---TOM

No! Your comment is total BS. Have you lived in NYC? We may have attitudes in NYC but we are not assh*les. It's not a character flaw that we are rude but we are certainly not insensitive to those less fortunate that have needs. Furthermore, us New Yorkers don't need decals on our public transit to explain to us the obvious need to give up our comforts to someone less comfortable than us. So, take your BS and cover your finger pointed in our direction. When you point that finger remember there are still 3 more plus a thumb pointing back at you.

"That's only because you're too fucking stupid to have a welfare state like all the decent social democracies where thanks to gutsy working class movements we don't have to be charity cases or rely on god-botherers."---TOM

You are proud of the fact that you below to a welfare state? Why? Welfare states and socialists like yourself are lazy and depend on others that work harder than you do to provide for your lazy ignorant self.

You depend on your government for your happiness? Why not put the power in the hands of the people and let them determine how to help one another or not to help one another if they so desire. You like having half your paycheck or more given to your government? Enjoy it hippy. I see nothing 'gutsy' about socialists. Stop pretending that you socialists are a bunch of hard-workers when you have a collectivist mindset that thrives because a few work hard, and most are a corrupt bunch of lazy morons.

"Thumbs up to Jim!"---SONG WUKONG

WHY? Is it because you fancy him and are trying to get him to recognize you? I hope you two are a happy couple living off your government provided food stamps and blocks of cheese.

We spew this drivel because it is fucking true. Sadly. I have been on countless buses, and not only in China, and the youth are hopeless. They should all be sent to Siberia to shovel shit.

China is a fucking disgrace these days, just like everywhere else on the planet. Young people are totally hopeless in every country, either ignorant boneheaded fat assholes like Americans, unbelievably lazy like the young French, psychotic Godfreak worshipping women haters like the young Muslims or sexually twisted Japanese... its a wonderful world. Bring on the robots!!

I agree with the young woman.

Many of the old peasants are selfish, nasty, greedy people. They use their old age as a crutch to get sympathy.

Do you think those old farts gave up their seats when they were young? Do you think those old people were considerate when they were young?

Society is a rat race. It's dog eat dog. Since that's the way China is so be it.

Let the old stand on the bus or train. If they're tired when they get home then let them drink milk. This is China not Japan.

Im guilty... Sometimes i dont give seat to women. Since i live in a province. I need to travel around 1 to 2 hours just to get to the city... giving my seat will mean I need to stand and ENJOY the pain of traveling while standing for 2 hours.

Dont get me wrong... I usually give my seat to people with babies and the elderly during mornings going to work but after my work Im too tired to even get up and offer my seat to other people. That's the time I dont care whatever they are going to say (but sometimes i still give in cause of guilt) since i will be traveling back home for 2 hours again and it's no fun traveling for 2 hours when you are really tired from work.

Good on that young woman, as peteryang quite rightly pointed out it is a choice, not a duty, nor a requirement.

I for one am tired of this generational burden. I believe in respect for old people, but they have to make a choice when they leave their home, that not every member of the general public is going to help them with everything.

I travel a minimum of 20 hours a week on buses and subways, the majority of the time i prefer to stand. I don't see claiming a seat as the most important thing to me, although I have back problems.

Older generations have a disregard for the burdens placed on the young. If older people don't like modern society, they shouldn't have supported their governments in the past. We all have it hard, young and old.

@David D

What a nonchalant dinosaur you are. Have you ever heard of something called sustainability? Or do you travel around on a magic cloud which needs no form of energy?

Get real, check yourself, and i'd rather be poor in the pocket than poor in the mind.

What I find interesting is that while people are unwiling to give up seats in the mainland, here in Taipei people are often hesitant to sit in priority seats even if there are no elderly or disabled people. Often I find every other seat taken, and not a few people people standing, but still no one takes the priority seats (I often do anyway- I'll get up if someone old gets on). And if someone elderly gets on and all the priority seats are taken, people immediately offer them a seat.
It was the same in Seoul, but maybe more extreme.
As for Yang, he can try refusing a seat to an old person in a crowded train in NYC. Soon he'll be the disabled guy asking for a seat.
Jim- Go fuck yourself, you lazy, arrogant, colonialist, hypocritical European. You people always go off on the US, despite also having a shitload of social problems, also perpetrating neocolonialism and also being the root cause of much of the suffering in the world today. Fine the US doesn't make things any better, but most of these problems were caused by European colonialism in the first place. You're "we're better than the US, and everyone else for that matter" hypocrisy is more disgisting to me thn even that of ultra-captialist bible-thumping Americans.
Apologies for the rant.

I find it difficult - no, exasperating - to yield a seat to an older person (hey! I'm 60) who in turn gives it up to their 12-year old grandson who plops down without any thought of any other than himself, and granny and grandpa just chuckle with amusement besides themselves because they've made 宝宝 happy once more today.

Like a few others, I too relish the opportunity to give up my seat for an elderly person - though the decision of whether someone is old enough to deserve such kindness is a frequent torment.
I agree with Scott: Why on earth should children sit down?

Why on earth should children sit down?

~Because they are tired too.
-They hate being wedged in between masses of people in confined spaces.
-They are not as able to easily control their discomfort.

Last time, I'm not just being devils advocate here, but having seen students collapse/faint/lose consciousness on buses in midday summer heat in China before, I feel sorry for the pressures on the young.

Yes, and the old too, but let's not get ahead of ourselves, it would seem to mr that Lings' words ring true, the youth of today are a fucking disgrace.

Yet I beg you to ask yourselves, so who let this happen? Seems to be an inherent social problem, can we blame everything on the kiddies?

Nice. I am looking forward to joining an Internet group called "fuck the fucking I-never-give-up-my-seaters"

I didn't like it when somebody said "Sounds like an American attitude."

But the guy who said that wasn't American. So I blew it off.

Then I get to read this New Yorker who thinks he is defending American values by being obnoxious.

That I do mind, because I am an American and this goober is making all of us look like jerks.

What I know about these two gentlemen is that neither one seems to have respect for people in general. I don't believe either of them when they say that they would give up their seats.

The reason why people give up their seats is compassion. Neither gentleman showed an ounce of it.

I find that most people are ignorant sods when I get on a crowded bus or subway carrying my young son, one time (on an extremely crowded subway train) I actually had to tell a young woman to get out of the seat next to the door (this seat is designated for elderly people, pregnant women and people with young children). She looked so startled when me and my son "asked" her! When I'm old I'll enjoy giving these pigs a piece of my mind!

As a women and aforeigner working in China I have to take the bus every day. I am in my sixties as on very rare occasions someone has given up their seat. But, this is very rare. I am somewhat concerned that my bones may break some day with the erratic driving since my bones are getting more brittle but if i see an elderly person get on the bus i will, and have, given up my seat. it is the polite and respectful thing to do.

moral of the story is that every passenger has equal rights on a bus, and giving seat is purely a matter of choice, but everyone also has conscience and good will, so alot of them like to offer seat to elders.

personally, I oppose enforcing choice on people, when I am sitting on the bus and see a candidate I would take a moment to figure out if he or she legitimately needs my seat, and the decision is derived from many factors.

"That I do mind, because I am an American and this goober is making all of us look like jerks....The reason why people give up their seats is compassion. Neither gentleman showed an ounce of it. "---STEVE

Steve, calling someone a goober (a candy I believe but an insult nonetheless) is being compassionate. You make yourself look like a jerk.
Stop pointing fingers pal.
NYC folk show compassion and I argued this fact. Learn to read and practice what you preach. It's not about compassion its about right and wrong. It's not a gray issue.

让座不是出于怜悯"老吾老以及人之老",让座应该是年轻人向年长者的致敬,因为后者渡过了人生的沙场,到达了彼岸,他们有年青人没有的坎坷.

Lacan used to say, ‘To love is to give what you haven’t got.’ Which means: to love is to recognize your lack and give it to the other, place it in the other. It’s not giving what you possess, goods and presents, it’s giving something else that you don’t possess, which goes beyond you.

I link DanWei on my blog due to my interest in China. I am an American living in Chicago and I am 73 and very physically fit. So from my American perspective, giving up your seat should always be a choice. Just because someone is at a certain age does not matter, it is the physical condition of the standee that should be of concern. I would give up my seat if I saw someone having difficulty standing. Americans used to give up their seats to women, hold doors open for them, etc. etc. But obviously, this seems unnecessary given that women have taken their rightful place in society and are not frail and helpless per se.

My response to that is:

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

I am a foreigner (caucasian) who lives in Southwest China. I use the bus every day. I am under 50. About once a month a Chinese man older than me will offer me his seat! Maybe I have special needs because I am too tall and I can only fit in the seats at the front!

It is true that the older people can be very tough; they can elbow their way past me and plough through all of the younger people to get to a seat. It seems a fair fight to me the teens vs over 60's, both are formidable in combat.

Obviously, there are some old people who are not as strong and should be offered a seat. Sometimes, a younger person with a heavy bag might deserve a seat more than an older person who has no bag, is healthy and is going nowhere special. Anyone who looks absolutely tired out, might also deserve a seat more than me.

Here the "give up a seat to old people" message seems to be well accepted, but I think it would be better to promote the idea of "Give up your seat to anyone who you think needs it more than you do".

Also, if you get on the bus and you are 100 years old or heavily pregnant, please stand next to the young guy in the priority seat, not next to me!

On balance I think I feel better on a Chinese bus than a London bus.

i find many people here are hypocrites, you give up seat to other people, its your own good, keep it up, i really appreciate it. while other choose not, it's their right, maybe reasonable, maybe not, but who give you the right to blame them?

Actually i remember i have been questioned by a young guy stands next by me just because i refuse his request to give up my seat to an 50 some man. Not because I am not willing to, i am just too tired that time since i have been standing for 3 hours. But it made me rather embarrassing, because i am not a stubborn kinda person like that woman, but i feel uncomfortable about that, not about whether should we give up seat to the people in need, but about whether we have the right to blame other people on moral standard..

"who give you the right to blame them?"

We all have the right to criticize and complain about boorish behaviour by inconsiderate people in public places we all must share. Understood?

What about disabled people? (YOUNG people can be disabled by the way) Why is it always about giving up seats for the elderly?

Well, Clare, it is understood that the halt and lame, pregnant women, the elderly, in short all those who cannot or only with great difficulty stand by themselves should be given help, in this case in the form of a seat. This is one of the simple ways we express our common humanity, and would seem to be a matter of common sense and common decency. Well, isn't it, Clare? Or do you want to categorize by type, degree, size, age and sex? Do you need a manual, a guidebook to help you understand?

I'm sorry, but whats with the whole f*ck America/China thing? I mean, I know my comment comes a little late and all, but isn't it a bit stupid arguing a point that noone can actually prove? Who cares if Americans and Chinese do or don't give up their seats? In every country, you will probably find those who will, and those who won't give up their seat for elderly/disabled/young etc. So whats the damn problem?
Nor am I a peace activist, I think peace is an ideal that won't exist so long as we're around, but it sounds to me as if most of you just came on here to complain, rather than to think. Congratulations, you all started your own mini-war!
But seriously though, don't you think the elderly/disabled yada yada, will get over the fact that you didn't give up a seat pretty quickly? Is it really so important? kudos to those who gives up their seats, cos noone really gives a sh*t about the rest.

As an expat living in China, i often relate my earliest memory of China to people. It was on the metro in Shanghai several years ago, when I spotted a kid of around 12 years old fighting with an old lady for a seat. Not rushing for the seat and him beating here there, they were tussling, wrestling for the seat. I looked amazed, and before i could walk down the carriage and kick the little shit in the head he had won, beaten the old lady, and was sitting proudly in his seat. His father, sitting next to him, patted him on the leg in congratulation.
The problem is that no one on the carriage said anything, or engaged with the situation. I regret not saying anything, but at the time my Chinese was very limited.
Often in the streets i notice how little care people have for other people in the street or users of the road. This takes the form of parking in the bicycle lane or running through the end of a green light, having the stop in the middle of the intersection and blocking traffic. What always amazes me is that other road users never say anything, they never show any agitation and they never act aggressively toward the people who are acting so selfishly in public and inconveniencing everyone.
This passivity stems from not having a role in political affairs, which causes people to have the attitude where they will look after themselves at all costs and take an attitude of "luckily it is not happening to me" when they see injustices happening to other people. This same short sighted, hyper-selfish attitude is on display where young people refuse to give up seats for those who are more needy of them. I am sure they would change their tune when they are old, frail or pregnant, when the attitude would quickly change to continue their attitude that things should be arranged in such a way as to best suit themselves.
Attitudes like this change, and in the West they are changing away from the old fashioned traditional attitudes of respect for the elderly and compassion for the disabled. Either they are changing or we just hear more about it when these traditions are flaunted due to more saturative media, who knows. One thing is for sure though, compassionate attitudes, shall we say more enlightened attitudes to the elderly and disabled are the the result of the welfare states where the elderly and disabled are afforded the means to have a dignified life, usually by the state. Where this is not the case, people will naturally only care for themselves and their immediate family. Elderly willcare for children because they need the children to support them through their old age. Young will support their elderly relatives because they owe that care to them. This should not be confused with an enlightened attitude of respect and compassion for the elderly or infirm. In fact it is the opposite, and it causes selfish brats to go so far as to try to justify their callous self absorption by finding other selfish scumbags who agree with them.
Its a shame, a shame