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Nigerian and Chinese drug dealers sentenced to death in Dongguan

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Dongguan Times
June 24, 2009

A Nigerian man charged with drug trafficking in Dongguan was found guilty and sentenced to death yesterday, reports today's Dongguan Times.

Both Osonwa Okey Noberts and his girlfriend, Zhang Dongxiang, received the death penalty for selling heroin to Chinese drug dealers, who were also on trial yesterday. According to China's criminal law, trafficking of more than 50 grams of heroin can receive death penalty; police established that Noberts and Zhang had sold 5,978.1 grams and 5,091.1 grams, respectively.

Zhang confessed that Noberts had brought the drugs into China to supply lower-tier drug dealers. According to the report, this is the first case in Dongguan in which a foreigner was sentenced to death.

The paper included a few snippets of the courtroom scene, including Noberts's refusal to sign the sentencing document, Zhang's protests that she didn't know about the drugs at all, and her mother's reaction to the verdict:

Scene 2: Crying

Judge: (bangs the gavel forcefully): Court adjourned.
(At this point, the gallery is awash in tears.)
Zhang Dongxiang: (Suddenly turns around and shouts toward the gallery) Mom!
Mother: (through thick tears): Dongxiang.
(Zhang Dongxiang grips the railing with her manacled hands. She cries loudly, unwilling to leave.)
Mother: Do as they say.
(Zhang Dongxiang is led away by the bailiffs.)

Today's paper contained another interesting story of rule-breaking. The Dongguan Times followed up on an earlier story about assistant professor Wen Jianguo of the College of Chemistry and Environmental Engineering at the Dongguan University Technology who reported Fan Hongbo, dean of the college, for faking research data to obtain funding.

In the latest development, following the rejection of Wen's accusation by a college-organized academic committee, Wen has claimed that he has been suspended from his job and will likely to be transferred a lower position.

Wen claims he has iron-clad evidence. Fan has referred to him as a "mad dog," but has refused to address the accusations in detail.

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Comments on Nigerian and Chinese drug dealers sentenced to death in Dongguan

that scene from the courtroom seems like a parody.

two thoughts:
i can understand (though not really) thinking that selling drugs would be a way to make a quick buck. but in china? first what drug culture there is here is so closeted that most people i know think marijuana doesn't even exist within chinese borders unless in the hands of a uighur (who i have on good authority is also a thief). second, they kill you here. it's not the first time. my neighbour got busted for selling out of his place. he's since been executed. point: don't sell drugs in china. it's a stupid stupid idea.

second thought: i'm pretty bummed he's african. there's not really a need for further strengthening of stereotypes about black people being criminals. i can only imagine the comments. "had she only stayed away from 黑人…".

Actually here in Guangzhou in a certain area 黑鬼 are dealing drugs very openly on the street especially for foreigners. I was already wondering was any of them ever caught?

Hmm... this is why Chinese gov. scares the f*** out of me.

Just leave people the f*** alone I say for doing whatever they want in their privacy of their own homes not harming anyone else.

Now I do not drugs nor will I ever advocate doing so. Still I'm not going to sit here and try to tell others what to do ESPECIALLY when said things does not harm me directly. Indirectly maybe. But there are a billion thangs that indirectly harm me.

This BS! Total BS! Executed???

Some of these comments are simply asinine and symptoms of enfeebled minds.

Yes, there are Black Africans in Beijing, Guangzhou and Shanghai selling drugs, enough to catch the notice of police and people who don't use drugs, so no need to get irate over public mention of obvious fact. Many are Nigerians, and if that bums you out look to Bangkok for more acute example. To ignore that fact would be irresponsible of the public authorities.

Yes, taking drugs - even in the privacy and supposed sanctity of the home- is a justifiable concern and criminal for reason drug addiction and its consequences is a social problem trespassing beyond the home and into the public. China executes drug dealers. Singapore executes drug dealers. Malaysia executes drug dealers. Drug dealers execute other drug dealers. Of "the billion thangs" that harm you drug users and dealers are nowhere near the bottom of the list. If you have no sympathy for others' circumstances maybe you'd like drug users and dealers moving in next to you?

On the Discovery network, channel 20 here in Shanghai, right now is a documentary with Chinese subtitles and voice over on pets cut open, stuffed with drugs, then stitched up, used for smuggling. If the plight of human beings doesn't move you perhaps the sight of dogs with their bellies split open can knock some common sense into you.

IN Guangzhou, the African dealers sell their "stuff" quite openly in very public areas and are never bothered by the PSB, even after a phone call to 110.

Why? Because they only approach other "lao wai" and NOT local Chinese. Seems to be tacit cooperation or at least tolerance.

But what really is the root problem though? Do you not think if it were decriminalized then maybe it would stop being a crime? So governments aNd organizations would not profit and make gains on top of the sufferings of this made up crime? (I'm not going anywhere near actual HUMAN sufferings, that makes uncomfortable)

Maybe you are really a government/mafia dude and you have the most to lose?
Cliche moment: We all have responsibilities, so it is up to each one of us to make that choice and be responsible. Why is it that we always have to rely on something beside the self--you need to start at the self first, before you try forcing others. It's about being responsible.

The funny thing is you are just arguing randomly on the internet about randomly nothing discussing a random happening at some random place. But in your mind you are like WOW, OMFG! Shit is really happening, this shit is like a fucking movie! You are that random thing. You monkey man ape alien creation. And I'm just a piece of worthless trash, mr. movie star. So please all, just put me on ignore.


If - and I doubt so - the authorities ignore the problem they are either getting paid to look the other way and/or think it's a problem among certain foreigners (黑吃黑) not affecting Chinese, or they're too lazy to move against it. But, the police must know it is a problem affecting local Chinese more than foreigners, public news of the problem is frequently on television.

ScottLoar

You clearly know nothing about heroin. If it was managed and sold under state supervision the drug would have little harm on society. Overdosing on heroin is almost impossible and the worst side effect is constipation. The reason people die from it is because it is cut with so much crap by unscrupulous dealers. So it's a shame that three people are to lose their lives for selling this drug. China, like every other country, has a ridiculous policy on opiates. Personally, I don't do drugs. I barely drink and don't smoke. But as mentioned earlier, whom am I to stand in another's way?
The way to stop drug dealers moving in next door, Scott, would be to legalise the product. You'll never stop people taking drugs, better to let people make a choice based on information from medical experts rather than dodgy dealers out to make a quick buck.

No Way Sis insists one cannot overdose and die by shooting pure heroin, the worst side effect being constipation.

No Way sis insists the problem is unscrupulous drug dealers but goes on to say "it's a shame that three people are to lose their lives for selling this drug."

No Way Sis insists she is not her brother's keeper.

ScottLoar

You lost me there, mate.

As long as China insists on its "good ties" to Nigeria and allows its citizens to flock in by the masses without visa or backgrounds checks whatsoever while keeping an increasingly strict and regulated watch on other nationalities, this is only going to be a first of many. I live in Dongguan, I have my own plentiful stories to tell of this, yes, very ironic twist on the meaning of "黑人"...including the Chinese girlfriends they attract and a whole new, unprecedented set of dangers they have brought to a city that is already struggling with security and safety issues.

this dude shouldnt have cut the triads grass...

Theresa, please tell your stories becasue some here obviously can't wrap their mind around the problem.

ScottLoar, as a recount of certain incidences and experiences with the Nigerian 'crowd' in Dongguan would be told from the perspective of a Caucasian female, I have no desire whatsoever to initiate a flaming thread of comments including the words "racist" here ;-) I'd love to put more of my 'two cents worth' into this discussion but as a journalist, I will have to keep to a more objective and factual platform. I've just had too many personal observations of men who were - without exception - from Nigeria without - without exception - a valid visa who were - without exception - in the 'trading business'. I just hope this case will, for once, send out a message. What shocks me most is how many young Chinese women are getting involved with these foreign "traders". That part of the story, I really cannot understand :-(

Drug dealers know the penalties. In a country blighted by foreign imported opium for 100 years, it is not difficult to understand why the Chinese government takes such a hard stance on drugs of any kind.

ScottLoar:

Your arguments have been found wanting. But not by me. i no wants.

China executes drug dealers. Singapore executes drug dealers. Malaysia executes drug dealers.

...and now they have no drug problems anymore! Yeaa!!

No? Then why would you advocate a failed policy?

Note: You cannot use the real social costs of the current policy as a support for that same, current policy.

Example: Drug dealers are perversely incentivized to cut open animals to smuggle drugs! This is proof that the current policy regime must be maintained because drug dealers are officially bad!!

[Heh made myself checkle]

Anyone who can't see the mile-wide hole in that argument needs to call up EF and take some reading classes.

The Opium Wars taught China a lesson that they will probably never forget. There is a reason that China doesn't have a serious drug problem like some other countries like my own (America). They KILL you here for drug trafficking! Don't sell drugs in China. Stupid, stupid, stupid...

Rhodo Zeb;

No, you don't get the point, or in your words "i no wants." I never said executions were a deterrent to drug addiction. I did note that Malaysia executes drug dealers as does Singapore, and drug dealers execute other drug dealers, so China's policy of executions is neither unique or extraordinary, and drug dealers in China no matter home-grown or foreign should face the consequences.

But, say, you think drug dealers are good? "[Heh made myself checkle]"

To Theresa Who Claims "as a journalist, I will have to keep to a more objective and factual platform."

You mean writing the truth is that difficult? Sad.

ScottLoar, yes, sadly, it is difficult! I'm a chicken, I still want to live, at least for the time being until I've finished my book ;-)

A few Japanese dude were executed in Dalian couple years ago for drug trafficing

ScottLoar:

Heh, thanks for engaging. Uhh, but, typical of a troll, you did not bother to try to engage any of the ideas I tried to put forward. So its not much of an engagement, unfortunately.

Anyway, I so do enjoy fish in a barrel.

Let's unpack some of your statements so far:

Yes, there are Black Africans in Beijing, Guangzhou and Shanghai selling drugs...[t]o ignore that fact would be irresponsible of the public authorities.

I.e. the authorities can target any Africans for all I care, because they *might* be selling drugs. Of course, there are white foreigners and Chinese also selling drugs, so the cops should just seize everyone they see on the street, that would be fine. Cuz you are so afraid of the drug dealers moving in next to you.

Yes, taking drugs - even in the privacy and supposed sanctity of the home- is a justifiable concern and criminal for reason drug addiction and its consequences is a social problem trespassing beyond the home and into the public.

Again, using the social problems caused by the current criminalization regime as proof that the regime should be maintained. Total logical failure. Thanks so much for playing.

The idea that drug addiction (leading to crime, by the way) is such a social harm that we can totally warp our society in an attempt to purge it of this 'sin' is idiotic, and obviously so at this point. So good luck with that.

Lastly, you write:

I never said executions were a deterrent to drug addiction.

Well then whatever did you say in all those words? Whatever is your point, that you are obviously incapable of making?

How can I answer with such clear expression and penetrating thought as Rhodo Zeb?

Guess you didn't have a point after all.

No mercy for drug dealers, a good policy.

Disagree with tom and others that it's a good policy, but it is hard to be too sympathetic for a guy who knew the rules and possible consequences. The drug laws in China, Malaysia, Singapore (and yes, the USA, long mandatory minimums) are draconian, but people who are breaking them are playing at a big enough level to be assumed to know the risks and potential penalties.

law and order are already fragile here and you want to legalize drugs???? I don't want the society to descend into a cesspool.

however I support using drugs for medical purposes, cancer patients, for example, need their remaining life to go as smooth as possible, which can't be done without the powerful pain-reliving effect of drugs.

NoWaySis,
Yea, lets just legalize heroin and let honest companies produce, like the ones who make milk powder, they would never cut it with impurities to make an extra profit....... ohhh wait

Well, it is a shame that some people have put a bad name on Nigeria. Yes I am a Nigeria n but I am ashamed of what is going on. Many countries around the world have put Nigeria is some sort of blacklist. It is extremely difficult for Nigerians to travel around without extra security attention.

It is a shame that I being a Nigerian, I avoid talking with any other African person or Nigerian person on the street. When you see them, most of the time, you can tell where they are from. I avoid talking with them. As I am not sure of their affiliations and what they do so as not to be accused as an accomplice or associate.

I could continue ranting about how a group of people have destroyed the Nigerian image. Before when I travel around the world and tell people I am a Nigerian, most of the time they say oh Nigeria football Okocha. But not anymore.

My only hope is that someday, things can turn around. Though may take decades. Well, just have to keep struggling with a tarnished national image.

Its a shame. I hope the authorities ie The nigeria government, Chinese Embassy in Nigeria and Nigerian Embassy in Beijing should work together and prevent all these unpatriotic Nigerians from obtaining Chinese visa.

I am a Nigerian, and I think people should be subjective about what they write. I don't see any reason why someone should traffic dangerous drug, it harm others and destroy lives. Who are the traffickers---Arabs, Blacks and even Chinese, but why do they traffic them??? Because Whites and Chinese are use dangerous drugs.

Comments here have been racial without people talking subjectively, only 0.001% Nigerians traffic drugs, only 0.001% of Americans, whites, Chinese, etc does it now mean a government should criminate a race or nationality?

There are hundreds of Nigerians in China during good jobs and businesses, likewise other nationalities.

Does it mean because of the few whites that use drugs in China, so Chinese government should band all whites from coming to China????

I think the government should try to punish both the sellers and users, because they are both criminals.

If a person is selling a product, and nobody is buying, he won’t sell such a product again. But if some only kill or punish the seller, the user will always look for another seller to get what he wants.

So I think governments should both punish the sellers and buyers of hard drugs. These are the people spoiling the world for us and destroying wasting lives of young innocent children.

Lastly, no race, or color is naturally a criminal, just like we have black criminals, so also we have whites or yellow criminals. The world should stop criminating blacks but rather face to the reality of the world that all races should be checked of criminality.

DANWEI is baised, their title "Nigerian drug dealer sentenced to death in Dongguan" Is it only a Nigerian that was sentenced???? Why not a Chinese drug dealer sentenced to death in Dongguan," ???? That is why the world is not getting better, people are no longer sincere and subjective.

Both the Nigerian and Chinese committed the offence as stated in the news, so the title should reflect both are criminals not just a race or nationality.

I think DANWEI should apologize for the baised title.

Done.

I would however like to point out that the fact that the drug dealer was a foreigner was what attracted our attention: we would also have written the headline "American drug dealer...".

But fair enough, the two of them both got the death sentence, title changed.

Nigerian and Chinese drug dealers sentenced to death in Dongguan-------------This title is wrong, it should be Chinese and Nigerian drug dealers sentenced to death in Dongguan.------------ Because C is before N in English letters. DANWEI should take note.

Now you are being pedantic.

The Dongguan Times headline was Foreigner Sells Drugs, Sentenced to Death at First Trial. Other media reports sensationalized the news with headlines referring to an "international drug couple" (跨国“毒鸳鸯”). In both cases, the news was particularly notable to the Chinese press because of the non-Chinese status of Noberts - death sentences for drug dealers aren't all that uncommon but they don't always come with huge front-page photos. The initial headline captures the Chinese media framing; Jeremy's revision frames the story more objectively. We'll have to disagree about the importance of alphabetizing referents in headlines.

Is this really a new,people deal drugs anywhere/everywhere and no amount of execution will stop it..The comment below really caught my attension..madam caucasian is just plain ignorant,cos she know next to nothing about Nigerians or Nigerian men..

ScottLoar, as a recount of certain incidences and experiences with the Nigerian 'crowd' in Dongguan would be told from the perspective of a Caucasian female, I have no desire whatsoever to initiate a flaming thread of comments including the words "racist" here ;-) I'd love to put more of my 'two cents worth' into this discussion but as a journalist, I will have to keep to a more objective and factual platform. I've just had too many personal observations of men who were - without exception - from Nigeria without - without exception - a valid visa who were - without exception - in the 'trading business'. I just hope this case will, for once, send out a message. What shocks me most is how many young Chinese women are getting involved with these foreign "traders". That part of the story, I really cannot understand :-(

Hmm,madam caucasian..u seems to know alot about Nigerians..how many Nigerians do u really know without visa in China,u people won't just shut up and call drug dealer a drug dealer instead of ur spewing nonsense about people you knew next to nothing about,except some lousy idiot selling stupid stuffs..

Hummn, it is still very sad and enormously disheartening as a proud Nigerian, to hear such news as criminally as drug and drug related offences perpetrated by fellow Nigerians, rendering the name Nigeria, and infact an average Nigerians very worthless, with a sense of criminality at the mention of that name Nigeria.
It may be ironic to mention that the same place where you see very nice and hardworking Nigerians can also be found some ruthless Nigerians in such acts as daring as drug dealers and related heinous offences. Needless to say that the ripple effects and latent functions of such crimes make the society give enough identity and publicity to their perpetrators, as either blacks or Nigerians irrespective of who other insiders are, especially the locals.

The good Nigerians bury their heads in shame, while the ruthless hide under the illusion of a defeatist psychology of the quickest way to making money. A sound state of delirium!

We, the good ones owe ourselves the duty of associating together to promote peace and harmoniuos live in any neighborhood we found ourselves, sensitising everyone of the inherent dangers in such dastardly acts, and distantly dissociating ourselves completely away from whoever the perpetrators are, as fellowless Nigerian(s)! The law should always takes its course to at least curb the groing menace and to continue reminding the new and upcoming recruits and ther cohorts the inherent fair-play death sentence.

Still, I am a proud Nigerian. Show yourself, like me, if you truly are, and let your deeds announce and pronunce you more.

Long Live Federal Republic of Nigeria, and for the very good ones like me, long live Nigerians.
-Law

in respective of china law with any criminal act is perfect but narrating basically on one country is act of prevocational measure, facing the reality 60% of blacks cracking in Chinese market industries is Nigerian, 40% is Nigerians living in china especially in Guangdong province without visa in there passports,

looking toward the drug crime’s, many dangled dancing around china, come without money base on job level, it is still very sad and enormously disheartening that there is no job opportunity, fighting the ragnarok zone in terms of archiving or financial aid is out of service in china base on black’s and there history in china,

base on humanitarian measure the Chinese government need to create a way out about this to slow the crime act in china, there are many more fish in the sea’ but dangerous snake is in the upper level of the earth, if you want to catch a dangerous snake you need to train your own snake of the same specie to get all the snake you needed, if not that hum It is like cutting down a mighty and giant Amazon wood to create a tiny Jesus,

please innocent is my name

I am a Nigerian and I would like the whole world to read my comment. It is very true that there are some Nigrians in China trafficking drugs but we can't hide away from the fact that many other foreigners are also doing the same thing. The issue at hand is not about the tafficker being a black or Nigerian or an African. If we should go that way, many other western countries have worse record but I think we should face the fact that drug trafficking is a crime which the offenders must face the consequence. In Guangdong, there are many Nigeians doing business but it is so sad to understand that some are also crminals. And for the Chinese government, I suggest they should the up the law and execute futu trffickers as they are needless in th society

Peteryang:

What you have to understand is that, for the past 20 years if not more in the US and presumably Europe, we have had the same argument shoved down our throats, and it has not worked at all, but stupid people keep the failed argument going. Here it is, in all it's glory:

1. Drug use (and the resulting addiction) is bad, and

2. It creates crime (meaning *real* crime, that hurts other people, like theft and so on, not private drug dealing), so

3. Any (increasingly) harsh policy is good and right, otherwise

4. Drug dealing and use will increase, because

5. Punishment will lead to reductions in addiction and the public costs of addiction, and less punishment will lead to increases in same.


The reason I went off on ScottLoar is because he just threw in all the assumptions above, and therefore advocates a failed policy, proven to be a failure over 2-3 decades. To whit:

Yes, taking drugs - even in the privacy and supposed sanctity of the home- is a justifiable concern and criminal for reason drug addiction and its consequences is a social problem trespassing beyond the home and into the public.

And the of course he tries scare tactics.

If you have no sympathy for others' circumstances maybe you'd like drug users and dealers moving in next to you?

Which will totally happen tomorrow if China makes any small move back from execution. Right?

If you can't say right to that then we have a problem, and actually need to think of how society should handle these very real social costs.

Of course, if you can say right to that then you are an idiot, obviously. Or, well, maybe simple fact-resistant perhaps.

We know from deep experience that these policies do not work. And moreover, we know that people love to advocate out of sheer ignorance for these policies.

They do it all the time when they rationalize real social problems like the 60,000 rape victims yearly in US prison and jails.

And they do that in cases like this. And these kind of people need to be smacked down until they learn to think or just learn to shut up, I will take either result. They are hateful and small-minded people.

The guy knew what he was doing. As long as the world has oppressive poverty you will always find people willing to do highly dangerous things. Getting angry with them or saying that they are bad is not particularly useful.

After this execution, the beat will go on and on and on, in Shenzhen and throughout China...anyone want to argue it will have an effect?

I once had a professor from rural Tennessee whose hometown was near counties that were 'dry', meaning no alcohol could be sold within that county (these are very traditional areas).

Even though all people have to do is plan out their needs and drive to another county to buy alcohol, in fact some illegal moonshine companies exist, without legal restrictions, hidden in the hills. Every once in awhile, some clueless bootlegger will make something too strong, and people will die of alcohol poisoning.

Every time people would try to get the law overturned, guess what? The religious organizations and the bootleggers (i.e. the gangs created by the social policies worked together to defeat the proposed change.

That should be some food for thought.

Rhodo Zeb;

Drug dealers are executed in China. That's the way the law is, that's the way the law is interpreted, that's the consequences of selling drugs in China, regardless of whether or not execution is a deterrent to drug dealers. I have no sympathy for drug dealers and neither, obviously, do the authorities in China which in 1900 had experience of "about 40 million consumers of opium in China, about 13.5 - 15 million of them addicts (p.224, The Dragon and the Foreign Devils: China and the World, 1100 BC to the Present).

Drug use and the resulting addiction harms society, addiction ruins not only the addict's sordid life but those around him. Addiction (look up the word in the dictionary), the need and supply, breed crime. If you don't understand that then live among addicts for a time.

"Oppressive poverty" is not the root cause of addiction nor is economic well-being the solution to addiction as testifies drug use and addiction among persons far removed from poverty.

"Private drug dealing" is harmless? As opposed to what? Public dealing? You seem to want to justify your own habits as private and harmless, opposite to those you slur as "hateful and small-minded people". Support drug use and become - what? - loveable and open-minded? Surely you can offer a better argument than that?

I am curious as to what part of China it is some posters are referring to when they say China "doesn't have a drug problem". China has a large, acknowledged drug problem, and I guess because now that the foreigners - or the African foreigners, obviously foreigners of other colors have been involved in the Chinese drug trade for a long time - are once again a bigger part of the drug trade, does that make the problem worse?

Forget about the opium wars. Please. Don't demonize Nigerians. Please. In places of China where there are no - I repeat, NO - black faces, there are enough drugs to fuel 10,000 raves. Poor people sell drugs, immigrants from "developing" countries sell drugs. Drugs in China are here to stay, no matter who is currently selling them. Sadly.


Scott:

Sigh. You keep trying don't you. And you keep making mistakes.

All those Chinese addicts you reference were the result of totally liberal policies, right? China had no laws on the books criminalizing drug use during that period of large increases in the number of addicts, right?

Ha ha in fact China's drug problem from that period was most certainly not created by overly liberal policies.

Maybe the gangs that are *created and funded by these policies you support* are good at expanding the pool of addicts? Oh, I would suppose you never thought of that. Nor could you, apparently.

You, therefore, are pro drug gang. How could you take such a position? You support the laws that protect their income, and you actively support these policies.

Are you a gang lord, Scott? Or do you work for one? Maybe the drug lords have got their own 50 cent gangs. How much heroin do you get for each post, Scott?

Listen, I am going to say it one more time for you. Let's see if it can sink in:

You cannot, logically, argue that criminalization and harsh punishment are necessary because of social problems directly created by the policies that you advocate. Can. Not.

Now just some small points. I clearly said that oppressive poverty will lead people to take the risks of drug dealing, not that it leads to drug addiction. Either you can't read well or you are wilfully misreading.

Saying that the death penalty for drug dealing is not wise is not 'supporting' drug dealing. To argue otherwise is mendacious.

Arguing the same points again (drug addiction harms society, because I say so!) does not make them any more effective. Addiction has social costs. Policies that criminalize substances also have social costs. Do try to distinguish between the two, if you can.

Finally, take prostitution for example. Years ago the conventional wisdom was that prostitutes are bad, and they should be punished harshly, lest one move in next door.

Today, prostitution is fast becoming legal throughout the world.

And social harm related to prostitution is decreasing as a result.

Now I need to look up the word addiction because Scott said so. ;-)

James G, read the posts again. Not one poster here wrote or implied China "doesn't have a drug problem" (read again Jason/June 25, 2009 10:05 PM). Yes, "China has a large, acknowledged drug problem" (your words) attested by the news and television programs during this last week to make the Chinese public aware of the problem.

A Nigerian named Osonwa Okey Noberts was found guilty of drug dealing. No one is demonizing Nigerians despite some few groundless slurs of "racist", and no one supposes that the death of Osonwa Okey Noberts will solve the drug problem. However, I doubt the Chinese authorities will tolerate foreigners expanding the drug problem or will cut them slack because they are foreigners.

And by the way, rich people also sell drugs, James G.

"Listen, I am going to say it one more time for you."

And that's the last time, Rhodo Zeb, because my patience with your nonsense and foolish suppositions has ended.

No one may be demonizing Nigerians in this thread, but that does not mean that such generalizations do not go on elsewhere within China among Chinese and ex-pats alike, Scott Loar, and commenters may be reacting here to what they've encountered in other contexts.

Please tone down the wild accusations of trolling, Rhodo Zeb.

No one here had "demonized Nigerians" so it seems absurd to plead to us here to stop, doesn't it?

And I don't need you to tell me the attitudes of Chinese and expats in China.

Joel:

Calling someone a troll is pretty tame, don't you think? Is your standard policy to delete comments for such small insults? It isn't a big deal, you can do as you please, but the policy seems a bit overly sensitive...

I have serious doubts about someone claiming to be Nigerian and then arguing that this particular individual should be killed and that penalties against drug dealers should be increased (!), which is exactly what Sunny just did.

I will quote him or her again, (since you apparently deleted the relevant comment) as its a perfect representation of just how bad the argument is:

And for the Chinese government, I suggest they should the (sic) up the law and execute future (sic) traffickers (sic) as they are needless in the (sic) society

Sunny, the Nigerian, would have drug dealers drawn and quartered instead of just executed. If you don't like it then you support drug addiction and want drug dealers to move in next to you and want to spend lots of time with drug dealers and their sordid lives~!

Scott: Great! I am glad to receive this wonderful news!

Nothing has been deleted, Rhodo Zeb. Our "standard policy" is what appears above the comment box. If you had submitted this comment in the first place, explaining the reasons for your serious doubts rather than simply slamming the commenter in question with "you ignorant liar and troll" (in other words, toning it down), I would have published it, as I have with your latest comment (although your "sics" are misplaced and escalating the interpretation to "drawn and quartered" doesn't seem warranted at all, I would say).

Joel:

Ok, I understand, thanks for the explanation. As I said it is your call.

I submitted a comment before, which never appeared, and therefore presumably was deleted, no? That's the one where I wildly accuse another of trolling, violating 'generally accepted standards of courtesy', which led you to ask me to tone it down...not complaining just confused about your 'nothing was deleted'...

Anyway its of no matter.

There were multiple spelling and grammar errors in the part I pasted. 'Sic' is appropriate in these cases. To be a bit pedantic about it.

Sunny advocated a move to 'up the law' presumably above execution, which is what the article is about. Drawing and quartering is one such way to 'up the law', and is certainly not the most extreme example I could have chosen.

I still find it risible that a Nigerian would come onto a blog and say, effectively, please kill more Nigerians, China, which is exactly what Sunny said. And I suspect Sunny is a Chinese, but who can say about that.

My point is a simple but important one: These types of policies do not work. You can kill a lot of drug dealers or none, and you will still have drugs and addiction.

Further, you create rich and powerful drug gangs when you criminalize something that a lot of people really want. Those gangs cause more social problems!

You cannot blame heroin addiction for a gangland shoot out, for instance. Nor for drug dealers cutting up animals and putting drugs in them.

The cause of those social problems is prohibition.

Look at prostitution. Look at alcohol addiction, for god's sake. If addiction is so bad and causes so many social problems and hurts too many people, why is alcohol sold freely?

Alcohol addiction most certainly hurts (and probably kills) far more people than heroin, year after year. Why is it legal while at the same time we must execute heroin dealers or society as we know it will be destroyed?

This illogical way of thinking is by no means limited to China or the US or anywhere else. It is a world-wide problem. But let's at least use our senses and facts instead of our gut feelings and base emotions.

well i cant blame this poeple i blame our nigeria gorverment cos our home are not settel hum...... well anything can happen

I have one question for the Chinese Govt.I would like to know if they have taken any steps before the rule that the criminal should be executed?Have they inform the Nigeria Govt?The criminal in question is he trully a Nigerian?

Can i ask you one question?did you think Nigerian are bad?,Point of correction:These people are everywhere,Bad people are everywhere,!!!!!!people are thinking Nigerian are bad??Please dont think all Nigerian are bad,Nigerian have alots of good people!!

For my own advice for we Nigerian,just make your around you clear and clear.please dont care what Nigerian are doing.

actually out of 100% Nigerian only 20% are good.

I will continue to love Nigerian

" ...My point is a simple but important one: These types of policies do not work. You can kill a lot of drug dealers or none, and you will still have drugs and addiction...."

How the hell is that a point ? According to this logic, no child molesters should be punished as there will still have child molesters.

And according to your logic, selling of alcohol should be punishable by death.

Why would you think you can just substitute in another, totally different, social problem?

Now my analysis has been proven wrong by your direct attack. Geez.

Not a very good argument, I am afraid.

Nope. You are strawmaning this bitch why?

Child molestation and drug-dealing are two different things. One is a real victim crime. While the other, is a victimless crime. In the sense that the crime is made up, as long as you do not right-off-the-bat assume it to be a crime that harms OTHERS. The person that is doing it, is harming no one but himself. Of course, we can go on about harming others while under the influence. But all that can also be applied to drinking. Why no one outlawed drinking yet? Oh yeah...

Rhodo Zeb,

Does the punishment have some effect ? Does the law system in West have successfully saved SOME kids from being molested ?

If not, we dont even have to talk about such useless system. If it does, which mean that punishment did save some kids from being molested, then I am sure death penalty also save some innocent people's lives.

So your logic doesnt make any sense. and yes, the judicial system in China is laughable, but that doesnt justify your argument.

(/@,|,e\)_


Law is set up for protecting people. How does it accomplish that ? make potential criminal think twice before commiting crimes, make potential criminal think if it is worth before commiting crime.

If law wont make criminal think twice, China doesnt need such law; if law does make criminal think twice, then sure death penalty can save some people life, like no one would kill anyone for $20.

Thanks for writing some sense (/@,|,e\)_

WHH:

The topic is drug addiction and related social problems, not molestation.

Further, when you look at how effective a policy is, you have to look at what the cost of the policy is and what negative effects result from the policy.

A policy that cost one million to implement and resulted in one life saved from addiction probably isn't very effective.

On the other hand, a policy that costs a lot of money and also gives gangs a lot of money and status, so those gang members can be alluring to younger people, will certainly increase the number of addicts.

It is called logic, and it is not that hard to do, you could try it some time.

"...A policy that cost one million to implement and resulted in one life saved from addiction probably isn't very effective.... "

Rhodo Zeb,

what are you talking about ? by west report, last year, there were 1700 criminal executed in China. (some estimate 5000). I am sure at least 5000 innocent people and kids were saved cuz of the harsh punishment.

BTW, do you know Michael Fay ? (google him if you dont know.) That is typical stupid logic of humanity that millions of people suffer cuz the system has to be kind to several irresponsible.

I am a Nigerian, i have to say the people involved in drug business are evil minded, let it be very clear that, foreigners can not do drug business in china with out the full coperation of chinese . from the little i know, the main dealers in drugs business are the pakistanis ,they are the surppliers some bad nigerians, chinese and other country nationals join in the surply chain.
To say all nigerians are bad , is a very bad statement from any body, China know the volume of export that goes to nigeria from china, Most nigerians are good and hard working people, who are here to earn a good life by contributing there best to the chinese economy positively. The failure of chinese government to recognise such good nigerian and give them the needed pappers to stay and do there business ,has contributed seriousely to some nigerians going into bad business in china to make money fast. Because the chinese authority has refuse to give them the needed immigration permision to stay and do there genuine business.
As i want any body that is caught in drug business to be killed if find guilty with real evidence that he actually comitted the crime, The drug business in China is not a nigerian business, the government should ensure the drug dealers are purnished with the highest measure of purnishment.
The Police in Guanzhou should allow NIGERIANS THAT WANTS TO GO BACK TO NIGERIA TO DO SO , WITH OUT MUCH PROBLEMS. THE POLICE REFUSAL TO LET PEOPLE WILLING TO GO BACK HAS CONTRIIBUTED ALOT TO THESE CRIMINAL ACTS IN GUANZHOU. the police are now corrupt and they make money with nigerians in guanzhou because there passport has espired.
The POLICE SHOULD MAKE IT EASY FOR PEOPLE WILLING TO BACK HOME. SO THAT THESE PROBLEM WILL BE REDUCED.
Hamza

It is nice that you decided that so many people were saved, just by the death penalty for drug dealers.

I am so glad to be near to such a genius. Could you pinpoint the number a bit more clearly? 5,187 or more like 5,528?

I am sure that is worth the dead bodies of 1,700 Chinese people, if you say so, because of your deep wisdom.

When you are ready to deal in the world of facts, I think you will find it interesting.

LOL,

I am a chinese, I saw the effect of harsh punishment that immediately dropped the rate of crimes in China. You talk like a person who live on Mars judges what is going on in China.

Oh, by the way, in UK, each year, there are about 70,000 children missing, get it ? 70,000 children missing, THAT IS MORE THAN CHINA HAS. UK has about 0.063 billion people, China has 1.33 billion people.

Get a clue ? now do the species called human being a favor : imagine how many more chinese children wouldve been missing if China had been "much nicer" to criminals like UK; imagine how many of those 70,000 children were killed; imagine how many of those 70,000 children were raped; then imagine how many of killed and raped children couldve been saved if there had been some harsh punishment on criminals in UK, OK ?

Hi Wahaha,
Sorry I don't get the clue. Could you give your sources?
According to mine, there are around 100 000 Children missing cases per year in the UK, involving 43 000 kids.
The question is: what do we mean by Child missing? Thanks god, it is not only child abduction or rape, or trafficking. Most of the time it's a kid being late back from school or lost in a shopping mall. It can be also very often conflicts between parents - especially after a divorce. Most of the time, there is no link with criminal activities.
FYI also, 62% of missing kids case are solved within 24h in the UK, 15% between 24 and 48h, 14% within 5 days, and 10% are not solved after 5 days.
The homicide rate is also very low, thanks god once again, 1 per 700 missing kids at the highest for the most vulnerable group (5 to 9 years old females)
Of course, there are too many missing kids cases around the world that are not solved, but it is probably another topic.
BTW, it is very difficult to compare missing kids cases on an international level, since definitions of missing kids are very different from country to country.

Look, Wahaha, I am glad you are so confident in your own intelligence. I am not sure others would agree, but you go, boy.

If you want to turn back the clock on rule of law in China, go for it.

Let's bring back public executions, shall we? In the football stadiums, every Saturday? What do you say?

Because it is impossible to ever stop with your 'logic'. If execution prevents crime, then public execution will further prevent crime.

Let's go farther, shall we? We could dismember the criminals first, and make sure their death is as painful and violent as possible. That will further prevent crime, right?

I am quite sure you agree.

Oh, I know, if you seriously want to stop crime, let's go back to the really old days and kill multiple generations of the family of the criminal. Now *that* will make China a happy country free of crime. And people, I suppose.

Anyway, you are a clueless fenqing obviously, (that last comment with the numbers pulled straight out of your colon was funny for all the clear errors of fact and logic), and I have made my point a few too many times. Good day.

Well, well. This story has provoked quite an outpouring of bloodlust from the usual collection of crazed Americans and Chinese nationalists. Back in the real world, even leaving aside the humanitarian arguments, nothing would do more to improve China's dreadful public image than the abolition of the death penalty. Let's hope some of the more intelligent and far-sighted leaders are thinking on these lines.

One thing is clear. If you sell drugs, we kill you.
Thats the law. Now a human being with powers to analyse a situation, understands this. he sells the drugs. One day he is caught. Then executed. Fine. Dont sell drugs in China. You cant blame the Chinese government. If they spared the Chinese lady and executed the Nigerian, then thats a big problem. But they applied the law. Both are executed. If you are American and you sell drugs here, you will be executed. If you are mexican and you sell drugs, you will be executed. If you are chinese, the same thing will happen to you. so get some sense people.

I'm a Chinese and my name is Emmy Yang....i want to agree with a Nigeria that said the Guangzhou police are now corrupt....Yes they are really corrupt in such a way that they take money from many Nigerians and they will not still not let them go home. what is the Chinese government doing about this? is there's no law about it? OK i come to the Chinese and Nigerian drug dealers sentenced to death in Dongguan...I'm very happy about that because it has been put to law that anyone who offends it will surely face the cost...death is good for them.....i have travel so many countries on this world and i have seen that there's no good and decent business people on this earth as Nigerians....the fact that some of their brother mess around here in China dose't mean that all Nigerians are bad.....this people have contributed so much in times of given the Chinese commercial market GP a eough growth more in Guangdon.....but still out what the Chinese government thinks....this good and bad people are still dined visa extension....even when they agree to leave China and go back to their lovely people. there are so many African and other foreign people leaving here in China and they are also corrupt as this bad Nigerian....our Chinese government give them visa extension dined Nigerian who are their 90% Gp economy gorwth visa extation....i can't say everything today. on the issue at hand...these guys know the law of Chinese government about drugs and they went anhend and dell on it....i can say to them mis sorry.


Yang.

The USA is a disgusting country and China is following in its footsteps. God help poor suffering humanity because we are outnumbered by idiots.

Am a Nigerian and my name is bismarck, am commenting from malaysia..

I want to emphasize on the china's policy of killing a drug culprit. It's not the best of law to be affix on drug criminals. Give then a long term jail sentence of hard labour with hope of Life again. The reason's are some are innocent ,some don't know about it and some are possibly influenced by good stories without knowing the implecations. Take for instance the malaysian law has now been soften for some reasons .There is this italian lady who was caught with bag full of pure cocaine at the KLIA aiport kualar lumpur. we all proof of her not knowing about it. she was apprehended but later set free with evidence of her inocense . It was proven to be a look alike bag switch from withing the airport authorities.. imagine such case if it were to be china. that lady would have been executed. which is absolutely wrong.

*And for the sick comments about Nigerians been bad .

People this whole issue about Nigerians been bad should stop.. Nigerians are people of wisdom,richies ,unified mental complexity,happy people,friendly and respected people. we should know that there are good and bad people all over the world not only nigeria,, take for instance the benard madoff case in USA ,where he fraud investor of billions of dollars and nobody knew or even heard about it like the Niegrain case would be publicised..i asked a malaysian journalist about it yesterday and he doesn't even know about it .. oh come on people ,,this is not a time to be numb nutz on racism , its a race to make the world a better place .. Quite few people knows Nigerian in terms of economic and statistical Few. they only know nigeria because people said it. For crying out loud,, Nigerian has a population of over 120 million people and is blessed with abundant of resources, that can feed most countries like Malaysia ,hong-kong ,taiwan etc. for eternity. 7th largest producer of crude oil in the world. abundant supply of Gold , bitumen ,nickel ,sulphur ,asphalt , Iron and the newly just discovered Uranium in Jos province used for the making of nuclear radiactive weapons..such as that north-korea and Iran is using to threaten the world today. Nigerians are good investors around the world take for instance china eletronic market.. our import statisctic for 2007 from china is about 65% of the total chinese electronic export product and the world has nothing good to say about all this things?. what about the new kid chukwu emeka from the microsoft coporation and many more in diaspora. please people..if you are a racist its your own headache, nobody give a damn..but the issue about nigerians being bad is not a welcome development. and the drug law thing is only making the drug market flock with more money pumping in from the coporated Caucasian cartels and chinese alies , american ,autralians ,germans etc to get the product by any means.. so people use your brains.

am speaking on behalf of NIDOMA(NIGERIAN EMBASSY) malaysia

BISMARCK

Rhodo Zeb,

Are you trying to give me a moral lesson while you turn blind eyes to that innocent people are killed for nothing ? Are you telling me that your sense of morality is more important than the lives of children ? People like you are very very selfish, cuz you put your feelings above the misery of other people.

BTW, your logic is like the logic of CCP in 60s : everything is either white or black (anything related to capitalism is bad). By your stupid logic, if I support death penalty, then I must support torturing criminals to death.

You must come from a small and quiet town in which there was no murder in last 50 years or You have watched too many hollywood movies. Come back to the real world and find ways to solve problems. Dont wave a textbook like you hold the truth.

petit bonheur link

I dont have data for recent years.

"...Back in the real world, even leaving aside the humanitarian arguments, nothing would do more to improve China's dreadful public image than the abolition of the death penalty...."

LOL, back in the real world ?

In UK, a 12 year old boy put a baby on a rail track and watched the baby being run over by a train. ( Isnt true that you people keep talking about life is so precious, how did you educated your children ? )

In Australia, some firefighters set fire in forest (and killed some people) so they could keep their jobs.

In New york, two thugs robbed a KFC and executed 8 employees (2 of them survived) for several hundred dollars.

What public image are you talking about or you always turn blind to the real world ?

"Dont wave a textbook like you hold the truth."

Better to wave a textbook than to wave a flag.

Btw, bruhawahaha (or whatever your name is), while your on a crimes against children crusade, tell me this:

Until recently female infanticide was a big problem in China (newborn girls dumped in the gutter, thrown from windows, drowned etc), and no doubt still exists in some rural areas. What do you think has had the bigger impact on eradicating this abomination, education or punishment?

Waving a textbook is also better than waving a stick. It's called civilised behaviour. Ring any bells?

LOL,

Who is waving a communism flag in China now ? Only a brainwashed would think so.

Yes, emale infanticide is (not was) a big problem, when did I say it was not problem ?

Yes, waving a stick is bad, but it is better than using children's money and grandchildren's money in the name of what ? or yeah, (you fill the term here).

Well, those unborn are not born yet, right ? they cant speak, they cant protest, actually they dont even exist yet. Let them pay the debt, isnt it great ?

Does that ring any bells to you ?

The intention of any law is to deter further crimes committed, while at the same time, punish the law breakers.if at any time in the society it is seen that the original intentions of the law has failed, then the law has turned bad, and should be revised. In this case, i think the law still serves its purpose. so far, i can not think of a better way to fight this crime. How ever, i will like to plead with the law makers of this country to moderate the application of this law so that the innocent ones are not punished for crimes they did not commit.As for whether the dark color or the name Nigeria implies CRIME,i want to plead with every one to try to be very objective in what ever they say.I am an African and i feel very terrible when i read some of these comments.It is like creating a new kind of offense BEING BLACK.
LIKE I SAID, I AM AN AFRICAN AND PROUD TO BE ONE. This said, we all are just commenting on the situation on ground, and are not the law makers, or the law enforcement officers.What i think the police should note is this, as there are good guys among the blacks, so also there are bad guys among the whites.

In response to the apparent lack of macro-analysis and commentary (including that of the original article itself), this comment was constructed to resonate with the discerning Internet-izen, (as one purports to be), reader, thinker, and occasional 2 ¢ / 角 commenter.

Firstly, thumbs up to Danwei for providing the news, because otherwise I would never have heard this news at all.

Next, as many previous comments have attempted to highlight, blame for the current state of society does not rest on the shoulders of pushers or dealers, (guilty or not). Those in question are (unquestionably) the product of a global systemic failure.The black market of uncountable daily business transactions. The intrinsic profitable nature of trade, crime, punishment and prison complexes of today.

Moreover, what becomes of more interest is within the various comments and viewpoints that precede. The fuel on the fire. A tug-of-war between the employment of geeks, to counter the poignant exposure of those who have an undoubtably greater degree of proficiency in dissecting hyperbolical propaganda. Please, don't get me wrong, the subtly of which goes largely undetected and sways public opinion from north to south, east and west. (Not just inside the PRC).

After millenniums of underhand persuasive scapegoating and pervasive media dumbing down society, it's never quite the full nor clear picture. Merely a second-hand account of what had happened. If you are told what you are allowed to see and hear, then it also follows you are told what you are allowed to hear and think.

All colours of narcotics traffickers are probably the same, all colours of narcotics are probably not.

@ t-bone: on the money.

Wahaha and the guys out there, the issue of crime is world wide, it cut across all race and you can call it whatever name you like. Why crime would continue is because of deception in the part of human race.....making the fools to believe a particular race is criminally inclined-----From USA to New Zealand, crimines occur every seconds, why???? Because of greedy, injustices, insincerity, hatred etc.

To make the world a better place for all, Chinese government should treat all nationality in China equally, not denying Nigerian or Africans visa extension as said above by people and give to whites from Europe and America because they think they are superior.

As long as this is not done, illegal immigration, crimines etc will continue to climb in China.

Most whites in China are drug users wanted in their various countries but they have found heavens in China.

The only way to win illegal immigration and attain crimine free society is justices and fairplay to all irrespective of colour or race.

Long live China, Long live the world at large.

Hey, peter,

I didnt call out Nigeria, my whole argument was about death penalty, it has nothing to do with black, yellow or white.

Wahaha, I never said U talked about white, I only commented on what others said.

I don't care where he/she is black, yellow or white. I am just talking about crime and justice.

Long-live people who do not post under false pretenses of being someone who they are really not, and speak factual truths.

I am white, I am not wanted in my own country. Please talk sense. Fool.

Reading the comments on this site really emphasizes the lack of critical thinking and analysis by the sheeple of China. Firstly, drugs such as heroin, cocaine and cannabis are largely imported into China and the West with the "STRICT" complicity of customs officials and other law enforcement officials. To pillory Nigerians or any other ethnic groups as the "Problem" is absurd as it is naive. Drugs are a multi billion dollars international business controlled by an international intertwining mafia, which incidentally contain very few Nigerians, who operate pretty much at street level and occasionally as small time couriers.

It's interesting to read the comments of the Chinese contributors who seem to be unaware of their own history regarding drugs. Was it not the British, who annihilated Chinese's society by importing tons of opium into China during the legendary opium wars?

Following the Battle of Plassey in 1757, in which Britain annexed Bengal to its empire, the British East India Company pursued a monopoly on production and export of Indian opium. Monopoly began, in earnest, in 1773, as the British Governor-General of Bengal abolished the opium syndicate at Patna. For the next fifty-year opium trade would be the key to the East India Company's hold on the subcontinent.

Considering that importation of opium into China had been virtually banned by Chinese's law, the East India Company established an elaborate trading scheme partially relying on legal markets, and partially leveraging illicit ones. British merchants carrying no opium would buy tea in Canton on credit, and would balance their debts by selling opium at auction in Calcutta. From there, the opium would reach the Chinese coast hidden aboard British ships then smuggled into China by native merchants. In 1797 the company further tightened its grip on the opium trade by enforcing direct trade between opium farmers and the British, and ending the role of Bengali purchasing agents.

British exports of opium to China grew from an estimated 15 tons in 1730 to 75 tons in 1773. The product was shipped in over two thousand chests, each containing 140 pounds (64 kg) of opium. Unbelievably the aristocratic descendents of the families which owned the British East Inda Company and latterly Hong Kong, are still through their ties with corrupt Chinese leaders and officials, are still plying their trade, inter alia. Nigerians are foreign, black and highly visible. Coupled with the Sino need for victimhood and inherent racism, they make an easy target.

I wonder what the contributors will have to say after I posit the damage done by the Triad cocaine and especially heroin dealers who have ruined areas of east London, among other things plying their very lucrative trade amongst the poorest and defenceless. British jails are full of Chinese drug and fraud criminals. Do we pillory all Chinese? Now we don't. Instead of fixating on race, you Chinese should look closer to home before demonising others, after all, is not China rated AAA in the world corruption ratings, that's on A more than Nigeria.

aulus:

I am going to take your stats at face value, as I am not well-versed in that particular history.

What you are missing is simple: If only the Chinese government at the time had made drug dealing punishable by death, then the later drug problems would never have happened. The problem was that the Chinese government was too lenient on those drug dealers.

The death penalty is ALWAYS appropriate, as the great Wahaha teaches us. Otherwise, the drug problem might get out of hand.

Think of the children, will you? The children, aulus, the children!!

I agree. Drug smugglers,users, sellers,traders,should all be given the death sentence.Illegal drug use can destroy a society very quickly.We should have the same law here in the good ole USA.I have worked in the correctional profession,and have seen them come and go and right back again for the same drug offence,time and time again.Same people with the same face doing time for the same crime. "Illegal DRUGS". It has to stop, and i agree with the way the Chinese Government is doing it.

@RhodoZeb - What aulus did not mention is that the British did not introduce the opium to China; what they did was they made the existing drug problem worse by bringing in cheaper Indian stuff. Until then, the opium (poppy) was grown and processed in China by the Chinese, and the trade in it was lively, presumably under the noses of imperial officers (wink wink, 10% thank you-style). So do not get too self-righteous here.

As for the death penalty, it simply does not work. Never did. And its origins and persistence have nothing to do with its efficacy, but with the 'eye for eye' principle and our notions of justice. Another thing: Many of us, including myself, often feel that certain criminals deserve nothing less. But guess what? We do so under the assumption of their actual guilt. While sometimes we are right, mostly it is an assumption only. Most people objecting death penalty do not do so because their hearts bleed for the crims, but because they know that there is no justice system in existence that guarantees an innocent is never executed.

Speaking of which, what do you think about the Chinese law, law enforcement, or judiciary? The best there is? Heh!

And never mind comrade Wahaha; he's a twat.

Neddy:

I was being completely tongue in cheek in that last comment. I have given up trying to break through the reservoir of stupidity from the fen qing.

My point, which probably wasn't clear, is that if there is one mistake the Chinese government didn't make regarding opium in that period was having too-lenient penalties.

My point was that serious problem of Chinese society at that time was not curtailed by harsh sentences, and you can bet the sentences were very, very harsh.

Anyway, you make some strong points. Overall China's judiciary and legal structure are getting better, without a doubt. There are a few serious problems (ahem *Prty member exceptionalism* cough) in that regard, but in general things are moving in the right direction.

But still such a long way to go...

i really need African governments to meet together help they children in chinese net now most expecally nigerians

Regardless of your race and gender when you visit any Country or Live there obey their rules. Dont travel out of your COuntry to sell drugs in another mans land. I feel bad for the Chinese girl only. I go to China all the time and their is so many things one can buy from there why sell bad drugs?
If you cant do the time dont do the crime.

Drug is bad i dont care if the Guy is a Nigerian or not follow the rules and others learn from this.

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