Net Nanny Follies

Youtube blocked in China

Youtube is blocked in China as of 22:45, Beijing time.

See no evil, hear no evil...

For the latest status of Youtube, please see the Net Nanny Follies category.

There are currently 70 Comments for Youtube blocked in China.

Comments on Youtube blocked in China

has it anything to do with Tibet?

It was only a matter of time. But, to add insult to injury, I just got a "connection reset" error on WiTopia's site as I tried to purchase my VPN to get around this silliness.

Indeed it seemed to be blocked through any carrier. My carrier is China Railway Communication Co.and couldn't visit youtube for a while. I The government is ashamed.

I knew as early as 3pm shanghai time, and i came on here but there was no news of it till now. I was hoping it was ChinaNet playing me up. I hope its not 2 weeks again, as i wont know what to do with myself!

Yep can't access it neither (am using China Netcom). It was accessible though this afternoon.

If I ever get the chance to meet a senior government official, I'm definitely going to complain about the Net Nanny.

说实话, 我都有点同情广电总局了,压力很大,工作很繁忙,导致现在跟抽风似的……

has it anything to do with Tibet?

It has a lot to do with Tibet.

Google都封过,Youtube被封有什么新鲜的?

Youtube went down approximately 16:45 Tianjin time yesterday. For once, Tianjin is ahead of Beijing! And like Andrew, I find that WiTopia's transaction page is being blocked. Fun stuff.

"说实话, 我都有点同情广电总局了,压力很大,工作很繁忙,导致现在跟抽风似的……"

yeah, they're busy and have lots of pressure, so that means they can do whatever they please. Nuts to that. Give us youtube back!!

呵呵,封就封吧

Stand STRONG and be UNITED, China!!!

You don't need meddling foreign coverage into internal affairs of China!! Chinese LIKE to remain blissfully and harmoniously ignorant and ill-informed!! IT has been the Chinese way for 5,000 years!!!

And it's DINNER time, so let's go EAT!!!

The chinese don't like to admit if front of foreigners that their government keeps things from them, but they know it. They don't want to lose face, but it is about time the chinese people do something about their government who only cares about their survival and the money in their pockets instead of the people in this country. Youtube is only a small part of it.

Clearly the riots in Tibet are making world headlines and China is trying desperately to stop them. It makes sense for Tibetan activitsts to make their case for independence as the Olympics approach. There will be more rioting for sure.

The old geezers in Beijing don't understand that they make the whole thing so much worse by doing this - particilarly now as they cannot stop information getting out anyway. Blocking Youtube is pointless and it just makes them look even worse than they are. Unfortunately, however, they have started the repression and now and they cannot turn back. They now have no choice but to put the riots down mercilessly and that is what is predict. This is going to get a lot worse before it gets better. It may also grow to affect what we can and cannot say here on Danwei.

Disgusting Tibetan splittists!
Go on licking their western master's asshole.

It's about midnight of the 16/17th, and yahoo's homepage is blocked. They have headlines up the protests/riots up, so I'm not surprised.

We can still watch the Hong Kong bank clerk/nurse girl do her thing, at least until Bjork says "Heng Seng, Heng Seng!"

Down here in the southern part of China, The Guardian is blocked with a connection reset error.

I'm in the south of China, and many news sites containing Tibet-related articles are blocked with connection reset errors. This includes the entire Guardian website, as well as all news links from Yahoo, etc. Some sites, like USA Today, seem fine.

Furthermore, I cannot connect to my VPN provider.

Why hasn't flickr been blocked yet?

the website of british newspaper the guardian seems to be blocked too... doesn't even open with proxies :(

starting to lose my patience...

Why hasn't flickr been blocked yet?

I'm in OZ, so I can access to all of the sites you mentioned. As far as I know, the majority of video and photo evidence (not the media judgement) basically shows that the condition was very messy. The monks broke into shops, banks and even hotels owned by non-tibetan, and then set them to fire. They also burned an Islamic temple, stone and beat non-tibetan citizens on the street.

On youtube, there also videos showing people attacking Chinese embassies in Canada and Australia,tooking down the flag etc.

So far, I could say that the Chinese government would like to end this as soon as possible. But considering how the Chinese oversea students react to these video and foreign media's report (notably BBC and CNN) with pure anger, I could say that if majority of the Chinese got the same level exposer, they would sure force the government to use extreme violence in Tibet, and then it would be the real trouble.

Usually I'm quite annoyed by the website blocking, but this time, I think it's better be. Don't want to see my people killing each other.

真服了都三天了,一开会就封网站.

可能是西藏的事情--
但对于西藏那事情三个字:杀无赦!

Filtering is also happening on mobile internet platforms!

I would be angy too if Chinese. But how much can we believe these videos? Wouldn't it be easy to dress up like a monk...?
I sound paranoid, I know.
I life in China...

Shame on the government! These "splittists", as our friend and firend of the people, a-hole Ding, so nicely expressed were doing nothing more than staging a peaceful protest to protest the detainment of some monks. They in turn got gassed. Of course the monks and the Tibetan people as a whole are going to get pissed off! The government is controlled by nothing more than a bunch of morons running around like chickens with no head because of their fears of losing power and money, that's all.

To add insult to injury, no there are scores of dead Tibetans all over the place, sites are being blocked in a orgy of censorship, the Han are practically unaware of what is *really* going on and/or they are so stupid that they just don't give a flying f%*&k, and some Han are talking disgusting shit about Tibetans on their forums (which lo and behold haven't been censored). It's pathetic.

Now we foreign devils are stuck with no YouTube, , no this, no that, and at least in this part of Sichuan, NO YAHOO at all. I can't access anything on Yahoo, not even Yahoo from other countries. Nothing except the frukin' mainland Yahoo, which will block you as soon as you try to reach your e-mail. Turds!

I've been living here for 7 years and I thought that things were changing for the better. Bullocks! So much for a "Harmonious Society"... Such bullshit. I hope that the shit *really* hits the fan so that the Olympics go completely caput!! This country needs a reality check. Assholes!

More riots please.

More tear gas please.

More chaos please.

Bring them to BJ please.

China implosion please.

NOW I'm excited about the O-Games.

In sum, it is now patently obvious and transparent that what China really wants is to use the Olympics as a form of exporting their lies and propaganda, and as a tool to attract foreign investment (which would help the communists stay in power for a longer period of time). "Let's present to the world a prosperous and beautiful China, where problems are being solved and where people are having more freedom every day". Nonsense!

China wants all foreign nations to only see a mirage, a simulacrum of reality. I bet you anything that two weeks prior to the Olympics, during the Olympics, and two weeks after the Olympics, it will be virtually impossible for any foreigner to get train or plane tickets to go anywhere, except the "model" cities that China wants people to see (i.e. just a handful), not because there are really no tickets available, but rather because they simply don't want the world to see the reality of their country!

It's business as usual over here. I've been deceived!!

Yahoo not loading in Shanghai...

Hi,

We started few month a VPN service : www.linkideo.com

If some Chinese people want try it for free, email us !

Note : Webonly access (enough to watch Youtube) is already Free

Have a nice day

Brian - Linkideo Team

After several attempts, managed to get my Witopia VPN downloaded this afternoon in Shanghai

Hello dear West,

Go boycotting Beijing Olympic, please. Perhaps the Game will be better off that way.

China doesn't really care any more. The Game will not credit China any more or any less. China has already attracted too many idiots' attention. enough. Give us a break. Don't show up if you feel strongly - We feel tired.

Thanks,
Ordinary Chinese

"Hello dear *West*,

Go boycotting Beijing Olympic, please. Perhaps the Game will be better off that way."

The games don't belong to China, they belong to the whole world. It is not a right to be Olympic host; it is a privilege. As far as I'm concerned, the PRC hardly deserves that privilege any longer, as they have shown to the world that what's important has hardly changed since the days of Deng.

"China doesn't really care any more."

That's too bad, and that is presisely why the PRC is still so messed up.

"The Game will not credit China any more or any less."

I doubt that. It all depends on how the Chinese government and the Chinese people as a whole behave.

"China has already attracted too many idiots' attention."

That's not us idiots' fault.

"enough."

Yes, enough. But from whose side?

"Give us a break."

Why? You guys sure do not give Tibetans (and many others) "a break".

"Don't show up if you feel strongly."

That is precisely what a lot of people will do: not show up or give support.

"We feel tired"

Then do something about it.

"Thanks"

You're welcome.

"Ordinary Chinese"

No. Ordinary, cowardly Chinese. There are many Chinese folks who aren't like you.

"Why isn't flickr blocked?"

Flickr is and has been blocked. You can access the site, but click on any photo and it won't show up.

Why does so many forign person are so upset with the Chinese Government. Over the Youtube being blocked? I have not been back o shanghai for a really long time, but I don't think that it is that bad. I don't think the government is that bad. Maybe you not been getting your facts straight.
I don't agree with your opinion at all. I think that you are a bit like these people that don't seen to know what really going on but make a few educated guess base on your personal opinion.

I met a tibetian person before, he is someone of my age, that he doesn't seen to react that way to me, he is really nice to me. but I didn't really have the time to get to know him at that point, so I don't really know how he feel about china from his point of view.

Pissed Off Foreigner,

Please keep pissing yourself off and leave my country.

We need no more pollutions, thanks!

Posted by: Suzie | March 17, 2008 2:01 PM

I would be angy too if Chinese. But how much can we believe these videos? Wouldn't it be easy to dress up like a monk...?
I sound paranoid, I know.
I life in China...

I don't think you are paranoid, I guess it's a good thing that people actually questioning the "iron fact" they seen.

My analysis was like this:

A. they are real monks
B. they are bunch of fakers.

And now we need to analysis B.

Step 1. If the monks are not real monks but a bunch of fakers, and there's no obvious third party who would benefit from the riot, then we could have come with two possibilities: 1) The Chinese Govenmt payed someone to play violent monks. 2) Dalai Lama payed someone to dressed up as monk to do the violence.

Step 2. Now we look at possibility 1. Chinese government are so desperate to save face for the Olympic game, and stop the potential trouble between Han and Zang(Tibetan) ethnics, the best profit for the Chinese government is that the riot didn't happen at all. So it's basically no way for them to make the thing worse. Possibility 1 proved wrong.

Step 3. Take a look at the possibility 2. As a nobel peace prize winner, it would be really pity if Dalai Lama came up with an idea of using fake, violent monks to achieve a political success. On the other hand, if the monks are really violent, there's nothing good would come from international society either. It's just so unlikely he would make such a stupid decision. Possibility 2 proved wrong.

Step 4. If the both possibilities from option B are proved wrong, we got only one option: A. The "monks" are real monks in Tibet, and they robbed the bank, stabbed civilians, and burned school and hospitals, just like the real terrorists would do.

Oh, forget to say, Pissed Off Foreigner, if you ever know that one of the Chinese democracy movement leader was caught by the police but the court case couldn't close, because the lack of evidence. Yahoo submitted all the email achieve from that person to the Chinese government, so they finally be able to announce him guilty and put him in jail.

Don't know if you still want to trust the company that would give your account away for a bigger market-share. Since you are so easy to get pissed off, I just couldn't resist to tell you that the thing you angried about, worth nothing at all. Still think the Chinese culture might not suit you though, so I seriously advice you to consider to leave.

xanax - do you have a link that shows a monk robbing banks, stabbing civilians, etc. If so, could you please post a link. I have been following the events quite carefully online and have seen nothing of the sort. It is not that I don't believe you - I just prefer to see facts to go along with the propaganda.

mike:

I hope somehow youtube still working for you.

violent monks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1_KuZVrXGc

protesters attacking a civilian (the photo of policemen hiding behind the shields to prevent the stons throwned by the protester made the cover page of the New York Time was shot by the same guy)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmqWRoZaFMk
the guys blog, interesting debate and links for extra info in the comment area: http://kadfly.blogspot.com/2008/03/more-from-lhasa.html

more from a guy who claim to be Ken's (the photo-video hero) friend:
http://thepostpostmodern.blogspot.com/

protesters in Belgium clashing with the police
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU-Hhv_Ve54

tibetan student doing something to the Chinese embassy in Toronto (this actually the initial video that angered the Chinese international students globally and some of them spammed the youtube 24h non-stop with the location and time zone advantage... - -||| )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLQF4qk1-4A

That's what I got so far, hope some of them would be helpful to u 2. :)

"Pissed Off Foreigner,

Please keep pissing yourself off and leave my country.

We need no more pollutions, thanks!"

You sound exactly like like those buffoons in other countries that say, "don't like it, then leave it". It's just a bunch of bs, especially since as far as I'm concerned, this is my home too.

And by the way, I have no qualm with the Chinese people. I have a wonderful Chinese family and most of the people I hang out with are Chinese, not foreigners, as they are usually just a bunch of complain-about-everything lilies.

My issue is with the gov of the PRC. And guess what, my issue is also with the Tibetans because they have basically lost control and are now destroying and killing indiscriminately. I have that information from personal sources. Further, the Dalai Lama is a relic. Out with both: the communists and the Lama.

It is important that a transition to a truly free society is done wisely however, so I do not advocate an overthrow of the gov (as that would have negative repercussions for the people of China and also the world), just a smooth (and willing!) transition that takes a decade (or two, tops). That's the right thing to do.

thanks xanax -I watched the first clip and did not see any monks robbing banks or killing people. I did see one or two monks smashing objects in the street, but that was all. All I saw was some very pissed of Tibetan youth expressing their anger in perhaps the only way they can. You do realise that not all Tibetans are monks don't you?

Peoples here please do not object about chinese gov.they are doing good, to its peoples and country what as an gov. needs to do and control the country
Proud of China

You do realise that not all Tibetans are monks don't you?

I did. And what I also aware is that a few minutes long clip is not the full length documentary of what was going on in there. It can only give you a side view of the whole picture, and the rest, you have to think and analysis and checking the result against evidence.

In the first video, you can see monks smashing, and also trying to broke in to stores with other protesting people. It also shows that people are breaking in to the branch of Bank of China.

In the motorcycler video you could see the tibetan people attacking a Han chinese man. It also a part of the protest. The monks and the tibetan youth formed an army of violence, tored the street apart.

Yes, the video did not show you monks cover their hands with blood, but they are not clean either.

Think if one who was a active member of Nazi, and claim he only worked as a truck driver between concentration camps, had never killed a single Jewish people with his own hands, would that make him less guilty?

Considering the significant role that monks, which was called lama in tibet, play in the local people's life, the answer is that the real thing probably 20 times worse than what we could see in the vid.

All I saw was some very pissed of Tibetan youth expressing their anger in perhaps the only way they can.

Sure, the 9-11 probably also the only way that some agressive muslims could use to espress their anger. I hope the victims and their families could agree with you. :

Violence can never solve any problem, only postponed for a bigger explosion.


To Pissed Off Foreigner:

I guess we both posted something when we are in a bad mood. You got pissed off because you are blocked inside, and I got really frustrated because I was blocked outside, can't check eyewitness stories posted in Chinese forum. The only available resources are the foreign media. What I really learned from this events is that Chinese government controled media is bad, really bad, they only sell propaganda, but everyone knows that, so no one really believes what they say. And the foreign "free" media, they report bullshit and no one doubt about them. Now according to BBC, CNN, Washington Post, and all the main German media, Nepal is part of China. LMAO

If anything I posted in the previous post that addressed to you were a bit harsh and make you feel uncomfortable, please don't take it seriously, I was just in a really bad mood.

BTW, the Yahoo story is true, and I never use any service from this company, not even flickr.

Forget it Xanax. This whole thing is making *everyone* make mistakes -- the gov, the Tibetans, the "west", virtually all media, and so on... I'm sorry too for my outbursts. Peace.

xanax: Yes, the video did not show you monks cover their hands with blood, but they are not clean either.

so, if no evidence, I have to use my imagination and paint a picture that way. not very logical to me I am afraid

xanax: Think if one who was a active member of Nazi, and claim he only worked as a truck driver between concentration camps, had never killed a single Jewish people with his own hands, would that make him less guilty?

If therewas evidence of him driving a truck then he would be guilty of driving a truck and would be complicit in the deaths. However, if he just happened to be a German truck driver with no evidence of transporting people to the death camp, then I certainly wouldn't 'think and analysis' his guilt.

anyway, last comment here, you obviously believe in a DL clique of violent monks, I believe in something else. never will the twain meet.

omg china is really annoying. THey block so much, first for english television i need illegal sattelite, then there are many online games such as soldier front that canot e played in china, and now youtube. So annoying, the advantage is cheap new illegal dvd's :)

Amen chuimistro, that's exactly how I feel, the only benefit being here for 3 years is the games and dvds, saved me so much money, but other than that, this whole society is quite sad. First of all, my parents are Chinese, I was actually born here in Beijing but moved to the US when I was very young. Most of the time, I feel I'm stuck in between the two culture. Before, I do not like foreigner bad mouth China at all, but after being here for 3 years, my feeling has changed quite dramatically. I honestly feel depressed thinking about it. First of all, because I look and speak just like a normal Chinese person, I constantly feel I've been judged, mis-treated here in China. I feel the whole society is being judged by money or other materialistic things, UNLESS you are an foreigner. This is quite sad, all the years I lived in the US, I have never felt I don't belong, but here, I'm always insulted when I go out because they either feel I look too young have no money, or dress too casual and have no money.

Sure, China have gain a lot of economic growth since the 90s, but I feel we are loosing all the importance things in the Chinese culture. Society here are constant struggle between classes, and filled with jealousy, greed and corruption. One simple example, when we first moved to US, my dad had to clean toilet at his company, but never once he felt he was lower than anyone around him, nor anyone belittled him. But here, I go to a simple market, they will give me dirty looks or cuss at me for asking a simple price or basic human interaction to discuss about the price.

Before any of you jump up and down and begin to shout, why don't everyone (doesn't matter which opinion you have) think about the fact. After what I've been reading and watching online and through other news channel like CNN, I have to say the Tibetans only have the right idea but the wrong action. Both foreigner and Chinese government have their extreme bias against each other. I think Tibetans should follow Llama's idea, or other great civil right activist, to demonstrate their issues by civil disobedience instead of violence. I do not think by breaking all the Han's store and windows will get anywhere, in a way, I believe all citizen in Beijing suffer the same inequality as any other ethnic group. How much do they all suffer, well it is not for discussion here if you know what I mean.

But for those Chinese who only are angry at foreigner/media to attack Chinese government, please calm down and think about why this is the trend. After all, in a free press country, you wouldn't have to block all media access if there is nothing to hide. Why not let everyone be the judge? I sometime gets really frustrated because if you actually know Chinese like me who lives outside of China, almost EVERY Chinese person in the other country are so product of the Chinese ethnic and it's rich history and culture, we always try our best to represent Chinese as a whole. BUT it is China who's not been hurting our effort and this image! Here, people are (again, I'm only generalizing, sure there are always exceptions) only nice to the people they know personally. But you would rarely see a smile or a greeting, or even a "thank you" when you hold the door for anyone. Spits and trash are all over the city. Then you ad the bigger issues, such as safety concern in all Chinese good (exported pets food, tires, toys), corruption in the government, human rights. I know it is hard to admit faults of your own, but I believe the only way to make China stronger is for her own people to realize these issues and do something about it. Instead of just being brain-washed or being ignorant about it because you feel you cannot do anything about it. China does not need economic changes anymore, but instead, she needs MAJOR social and educational change!

saddenchinese, I understand exactly how you feel about the shop attendents who gave you the dirty looks. After living in Australia for 4 years, I made so many stupid mistakes when I go back to China, e.g, walking on the wrong side of the street. People would just call me idiot at my face.

Well, that's somehow understandable, because I didn't look like I'd make that kind of mistake. But no one wanted to be treat badly either.

Sarcastic people are everywhere in the world. My previous house agent in Australia, used to laugh at me, when I called her regarding to the safety issue of the lift, which didn't function well. She didn't call me idiot on my face, but no much different:"Oh, isn't it a commen sense that every lift have the emergency button?" Sigh, why should I wait until I got locked in the lift than prevent it from happening?

Give it a big LOL, then let it go.

Hi Xanax, I'm glad you understand some part of my meaning. It is almost everywhere. It can be a doorman, who think you are poor, they will stop you by the gate for no reason, while if a guy drives a Audi A6, they will change to a smile face right away. The worst is the government related agencies. If you don't have any connection, it will be run around after run around, and paper work after paper work, and you still have to smile and take their crap like they are doing a big favorite for you. (for God's sake, I'm paying 25% income tax here for what?? That's more than I would pay in US with the little money I am making right now lol) While if someone has the connection, everything will be done right away. This is the fundamental social in-equality I experience everyday here in China, and I'm actually in Beijing, the capital of this great country. Just imagine you are in some small town.

Well, these are actually small potatoes comparing to what I mentioned before, about the social changes we desperately need.

The problem I see China today, everything is based on money, and money leads to power, power leads to corruption, corruption leads to more money, it is a cycle that went on for 5000 years and has not sign of stopping. What's worse, I think today's teacher/parents are teaching these values to their kids. I remember Chinese kids used to compete who gets 100% on their test scores, but now I Even school teachers are not focusing teaching the next generation what's the true value being a human, but instead, think ways to make more money on the side. My couple graduate friends at university, basically worked for their professor for 2 years for free, so they can get their degree. When you go through an education system like this for 12 to 16+ years, the next generation will not be any different from this one. This is why you see so many filthy rich Chinese today drives BMW/Audi etc., but still spit/cuss in public like a farmers. Because they really didn't any social education when they are growing up, and they are not going to set any good examples for next generation, but all the kids want to be like them, they want to drive nice cars, eat fancy food everyday. This is why I'm so depressed here. Chinese are constantly fighting Chinese, while all the foreigners just watch on the sideline and laugh or trying to figure out why we are like we are.

Most Chinese doesn't know me think I'm more of a trader than a patriot, but believe me, I honestly want China to be great, and every other country think China is best country to live in. But before China gets there, Chinese need to learn how to respect other's opinion. Sure I am angry sometime that all the news report about China have been negative, even though China had made a lot of progress since 1949. But you have to understand there has to be some reason behind it. Foreign media isn't all organized together to get China, if we had more equality (let's start with less corruption and more rights for regular citizens), freedom of press, less propaganda, help with the Dafur situation instead of trade weapons for oils. Most of all, if there are some check and balance of power in the government, I guarantee you the world view on China will be changed greatly. Right now, I wanted to go shout in those foreigner faces who's against China (you will see a lot more outside of China, most of the foreigner here loves China), tell them to shut about China's human right issue, quality of Chinese goods etc. But I can't, because I do not have any facts to shut them up. Remember, action always speakers louder than words. I pray to God that the day will come, where Chinese good no longer will be looked as cheap Wal-Mart goods, but instead as high quality goods that surpass Japanese goods.

Hey, I hope no one is offended by my comments, I have been really stressed out here, and wanted to let out some of my thoughts before I go back to US soon. I wish we could have some intelligent discussion here :)

Dear Saddenchinese;

I've thought for some long while about something to say, some encouragement, some few words of consolation, some way to say you're not alone, that your comments are correct and your experiences are common to all of us foreigners in China.

I still don't know what to say, except it's time you went home. You've been here too long and can't take it anymore. Go home and have a good life.

Most respectfully.

@saddenchinese

What did you expect? That we are bunch of polite Swedes? Greed is good! Haven't you heard Gordan Gecko? If someone is rude to you, stand up for yourself, man!

What's wrong with spitting/cussing like a farmer? What do you have against farmers? And please don't blame society for your incoveniences. I do respect the fact that you may have different opionion. But in the famous word of Jiang Panda Ziemin, you are "too simple, too naive".

Btw, I have similar background as that I move to US when I was young. But the difference between you and I is that I understand this is China not North America. I don't blame "society" for any problems I encounter. If there is a something that particularly bother me, I tried to change it or think about a solution rather than bitch and moan on internet forum to anyone that would listen.

One more thing, your understanding of social evolution and value of free market capitalism is as appalling as your attitude toward life.

@ScottLoar

Your link from the other forum doesn't work. But as you can see, I overcame that small technical detail.

Cheers to all

Cao Meng De,

That link confusion was my fault and I've fixed it.

@saddenchinese

I reread my comments and realized that I had been quite harsh. I apologize and take back my comment about your atitude toward life.

Here is a dose of optimism. Quality of Chinese made goods will improve. We are going thru the same cycle that Japanese and Koreans have gone thru. We are actually moving up the value chain at a much faster pace than Japanese and Koreans had been in their similar stage of development.

I agree with free media access thing. Everybody F%%king hate the Nanny. What really galls me is that some chump at SARFT really think he/she is better than me at determining what's best fit for my consumption when I KNOW my IQ has to be several multiple of the sum of their total based on their past actions.

Darfur issue, I couldn't disagree with you more. I happened to spend quite sometime to study Darfur. Again what Western media tells you is only half the story. What happened in Darfur is a clusterf%$k civil war. And it's a war about sharing the spoils of oil revenue than anything else. Yes, it's a war about oil,and all major players are involved, including US and China and neigboring Chad, but not in the way you think. American blogger China Matters did a heck of job reporting on this.

I am very biased in this account because the portfolio I manage have heavy exposure to PetroChina. I was in fact at the Berkshire shareholder meeting last May where Darfur activists urged Warren Buffett to divest from PetroChina. I voted against the motion with Warren. The vote was overwhelmingly against divestment. Of course, Mr Buffett sold out his position later that year because of OVERVALUATION due to the frenzy surrouding PetroChina's IPO in Shanghai.

Besides where do you think we should get oil from? Maybe we could buy oil producing assets in Asia from Americans? Oh, yeah, we tried that, remember? Using CNOOC to purchase UNOCAL. US congress told us no.

We also have tried to purchase major stake in Russian oil companies. Russians told us no.

The only place we could go are places where Western oil majors have been barred from doing business such as Sudan and Iran.

We are in Sudan not because we want to because we have to.

Another example for you where things may not be what they seem. PetroChina had sold most of the Sudan oil to Japan. That's right, Japan. Because our government mistakenly think that price control on gasoline is a good idea (never a good idea in any circumstance, price control invariably fail) that PetroChina is losing money to refine crude oil into gasoline everytime crude oil price goes above $67 per barrel. So rather than making gasoline for domestic market where they will surely lose money, they sold the oil to Japan for higher profits (as a shareholder, I would also demand them to turn profit rather than subsidize wasteful use of energy in China's other industries, the solution is for our government to phase out price control).

As much as I would like to kick our government into shape, I have to say that compare to American government, our leaders are bunch of super genuises.

America's strength lies in her superior institution. But lately she had been misgovern by some serious incompentents if not outright retards. China has brilliant leaders but we have a faulty and leaky system.

It's up to our generation to built world class idiot-proof institutions that will guarantee politcal stability, economic prosperity and not to mention our place in the sun. That's right we are gonna be Number 1 again. That means we need democratic institutions and all that good stuff. But that's going to take a lot of hard work and dedication. Ultimately, its up to us to make it happen. I am trying best to do my part.

Cheers

America's strength? Freedom of conscience, respect for the rights of others, attending a civil society, segregation of the military from the political sphere, the necessity of a free press to investigate, question and check authority, rule of law (not, not, not "rule by law") and the recognition that even as our best efforts may be imperfect we still believe in future perfectability.

I admit most Americans do not understand much of this until after living some while in a country like China. Living in China they do learn the essential oil that is "sociability", to tolerate inconvenience, to smile at nagging imperfections, understand the responsibilities of reciprocity, and to deeply experience unrequited love - loving a culture and people so thoroughly the object of our love shall never fully understand.

@ScottLoar

You know what, matey, You are alright. At first I thought you are a pompous prick of a Brit (you still could be) but if I am ever in town, I wouldn't mind grab a beer with you. Then we could talk about your unrequited love and all that mush stuff, and many manly pursuits of course.

Cheers

youtube is unblocked now. :)

From my point of view, the only issue that sits above the rest, is the issue of culture.

China has achieved enorvous process over the past 60 years( more notable the past 30 since opening up) however very little is left of the true eastern culture that eastern philosophy stems from.

The temples in China are nothing more than tourist traps. It is shamefull. There is no sense of spirituality at all. Shaolin is now a registered trade mark. The economic success has come at a price, the degradation to the integrity of china's ancient culture.

I am not saying this is necessarily wrong. The world needs a strong China. But at least let us have one place, where eastern philosophy does not get contaminated by a combination of Chinese business and western imports.

I hope the Chinese leaders have the wisdom and forsight to ensure at least one sacred place. IF not the CHina and the world will one day look back in Sadness.

please excuse dreadful spelling, didnot check it

saddenchinese,

Your posts were quite good. I'm glad that you posted.

After living here for many years, I can boil down the problem(s) with China and its society to six words:

1) Arrogance
2) Anachronism
3) Nationalism
4) Negligence
5) Cowardice

and most importantly:

6) Apathy

If this country would rectify all of these, it could easily be one of the best countries in the world...

Dear POF,

After living here for many years, I can boil down the problem(s) with America and its society to six issues:

1) Retarded political leaders
2) too many stupid people who supports (1)
3) too many stupid people who don't realize (2)
4) too many stupid people educate their children to be like (3)
5) too many stupid people in general

and most importantly:

6) way too many stupid people

If this country would rectify all of these, it could easily be one of the best countries in the world...

finally I founded it back into this post. Well I do not want to continue arguing my point anymore, since I believe I made it quite clearly.


All I wanted to say is Cao Meng De, you have some good points, especially about how there are a lot of stupid Americans who is naive and clueless about the world. I don't have anything against farmers, that is my fault and I apologize for that. What I meant to say if China wanted to be a super power, at least act like a civilized country, starting at home! You can call me naive or whatever, but at least I understand civilized society have some common courtesy (and common sense), and treat other with respect and courtesy as you would get in return! I tell you, a freaking punk kid in the US almost have more manner than a fat guy drives a Audi here! It is not matter of education, it is matter of the society you are living in. Not ever anyone would say simple "thanks" when you hold the door for someone but instead they have the looks on their face you are suppose to do it for them. These are just the most simplest things that you woulnd't even need schooling for. People here are lived on double standards, problems only becomes problems when it happens to them personally, but before that, no one gives a sh*T. This is what I'm sick of.


Sure, Western media such as FAUX News etc, are totally biased, but at least I can investigate my self instead being told this is the way it is.
Therefore, I still rather be free to express my opinion and make a change of my life if I really wanted to, instead of being here that everything is told by a dedicated party-ship of group of old man! And it is quite obvious that you are benefiting from the Chinese evolution process, but have you ever considered any of the 99.9999% of the Chinese population, who probably (again I'm generalizing) have absolutely no way changing their life because of the in-equality structure in this society! The rich-poor gap is unbelievable scary. You have people spend on lunch that will equal to a person's 10 year salary, the that person is across the street from the restaurant (or in the restaurant serving them)! Talking about bias media, most annoying thing here is TV/Newspaper/Magazines, are all filled with propaganda hours after hours. For God sake, if it is not communist don't called it communist. At least in a true communist country, the government suppose to take care of you if you get sick or old. Here, my friends parents got laid of in the 90s, and only got 10k rmb for rest of their live, no pension or medical, and he was only in his 40s. Because of the high population, it is almost impossible for you to get any kind of job after 40 (especially when you were borne during the 50,60s, when no one went school but join the communist "culture" revolution!)

And what you said about too many stupid people in America, if they were so stupid, why would everyone still trying to be the USA? I think it is pretty much common sense that US cannot get to where they are today if they are total dumba**es right? The current US image is like how the whole world see China. If US (mainly the damn BUSHES) understand how foreign policy works, they would not heavily criticized. Just as if China understand the meaning of freedom of expression and human rights, foreign media wouldn't be as harsh on them.

POF, your most important point is right on the target. Apathy is a huge huge problem here (have to say about US politics as well, or else Bush wouldn't be in office the second term *sigh*). Almost no one I talked to here cared about these social problems (I wouldn't even go into political problems here), and what's worst they would get mad at me and calling me a traitor *sigh* This is the frustration and frankly, why I even bother with it. Therefore I choose to go home like scottloar said. I'm beat!


@sadden chinese

"And what you said about too many stupid people in America, if they were so stupid, why would everyone still trying to be the USA?"

cuz everyone knows that they could do better than people already living in US.

Okay, glib comment aside.

Hey man. I understand where you are coming from.

I am also quite aware of the yawning gap and social inequity between the priviledged and have nots here. I would much prefer to live in nice, safe and polite North America or Europe myself.

I also know what I am good at which is allocation of capital, providing funding for sound productive businesses and punish those idiotic wasteful industries (like current US investment banks and home builders). I am not good at kicking up a fuss and demand change, I am too far laid back for that.

Therefore I focus what I do best which helps China's economy to grow and count on people like you, whose politics I often do not agree and ideas I sometimes think naive, to effect social changes. Because I recognize that there is a place for healthy dissent and changes don't happen unless people active push and demand for it.

Unfortunately, you are throwing in the towel. I am sure it will be China's loss to lose a conscientious critic like you. Good luck on your journeys.

Iv'e been reading some of the comments about China and I'm quite worried. I'm due to go off to teach English there but am having second thoughts because a lot of the internet sites are blocked including YouTube. Why do they do this?I need YouTube for my work and relaxation.

Cao Meng De:

You can attack Americans as much as you wish, and with good reason, but I stand by what I said 100%. You know I'm right.

China and it's politians are using it's power not for good, but for evil, they are really corrupt and they don't deserve to run a country. They think just because they don't like something, that nobody likes it, so they ban it completely. And its not only websites, almost everything. Heck, 7-11 is banned from China!

matthew - go to china and ask the staff in your local 7-11 store why they have been banned from China. then ask them why in a recent survey chinese consumers ranked 7-11 as the most popular convenience store chain (even though they had never seen it as it was banned).

When I encounter this problem, I use the website of ViewYouTube
It’s specially designed to watch YouTube video’s online without hours of seaching/installing/configuring software. I can only recommend this.
The website is English but from China because it’s used alot there.

saddenchinese,
you speak my heart, are you still in beijing? I would like to meet you in person, I'm sure we have a lot in common.

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